Fallout 76

Amzin

Amzin

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Pretty much all the game publishers / devs that can afford to make their own launcher / distribution system have done so at this point. Steam's business model isn't unfair or unreasonable, but for the few big pubs, they decided they could make more by building their own infrastructure than relying on Steam and giving up their cut. I don't miss the days of every single game requiring it's own icon on my desktop or whatever, but I don't think we're ever going to approach that level of scattered hubs again. Ubi, EA, Bethesda, Blizzard, about the only one that I could see going to do their own thing yet is Square and they sort of did but then didn't and also Square has literally no idea what they're doing like 99% of the time on the PC space.
 
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Fadaar

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Origin and Steam the only two I've really used extensively. Origin and Steam were both giant shitpiles at the start, but IMO Origin was better at launch than Steam was. Don't let the rose tinted glasses fool you, Steam was absolute dogshit at launch. It made playing CS a pain in the ass and HL2 was a huge bitch to download and get going when it came out. They're both fine now of course, but I do miss the days of Steam having everything. Their bandwidth output is just $$$ and I love being able to max out my modem when downloading a game.
 
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The Dauntless One

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Fadaar said:
Origin and Steam the only two I've really used extensively. Origin and Steam were both giant shitpiles at the start, but IMO Origin was better at launch than Steam was. Don't let the rose tinted glasses fool you, Steam was absolute dogshit at launch. It made playing CS a pain in the ass and HL2 was a huge bitch to download and get going when it came out. They're both fine now of course, but I do miss the days of Steam having everything. Their bandwidth output is just $$$ and I love being able to max out my modem when downloading a game.
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Let's not forget Steam was the first of it's kind and released in 2003. Whereas Origins was released in 2011. Technology, namely internet, changed a LOT in those years for a smoother launch experience for Origins. Origins is still dog shit though. My only game (BF3) disappeared and I had to contact their support to get it back. The one upside is, I haven't purchased another EA game (aside from BF3).
 
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a c i d.f l y

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None of these launchers can compete with Steam's library, indie ties, diversity, first to market, and server strength. Other companies aren't actually looking to compete with them, they're only seeking to avoid the Steam tax, just like TENGEN did during the NES days. Several games that have released their own launchers for update pushing can still be launched through Steam first. I don't mind competition, but Steam is just doing it so right at this point that there's no real reason for an actual competitor. They're like the Microsoft for PC gaming.

I also have had hesitations of investing in games requiring launchers, given the likelihood of them shutting down and in a flash, all the games available through them are no longer available. This hasn't come to fruition as of yet, but is still a threat/risk, though likely given the history of PC, emulation would solve that issue.
 
Amzin

Amzin

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Fadaar said:
Origin and Steam the only two I've really used extensively. Origin and Steam were both giant shitpiles at the start, but IMO Origin was better at launch than Steam was. Don't let the rose tinted glasses fool you, Steam was absolute dogshit at launch. It made playing CS a pain in the ass and HL2 was a huge bitch to download and get going when it came out. They're both fine now of course, but I do miss the days of Steam having everything. Their bandwidth output is just $$$ and I love being able to max out my modem when downloading a game.
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I don't know who would claim Steam wasn't a pile to start, it was worse at finding servers to start than the various community ones that'd been made and I was kinda pissed at Steam for replacing them with their shit ass UI and implementation. They've come a long way but they still have serious user issues and are behind the times on a lot of things, but it's functional and relatively fair and dominates the market share, and it is a godsend for a lot of indie devs. Origin, Uplay, Bethesda-whatever, Battle.net are all functional but honestly none of them offer anything over Steam and some of them are markedly worse to navigate the way you would want to if they expanded significantly. They're designed from the ground-up for their games and not a whole hell of a lot else.
 
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Regime

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Fallout 76 has fast travel, and players under level 5 can't die in PvP | PC Gamer

I take it all back. Maybe I will play!

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Cybsled

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They've hinted that the PVP is going to be some manner of opt-in system anyways.
 
j00t

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i'm really having a hard time fundamentally understanding what they are trying to do. fallout multiplayer just... it FEELS like it should be MADE for griefers. i hate pvp, but i could imagine having some fun with a game designed for quick building and quick demolishing. but everything they are saying seems like they are trying to make this as kid gloves as possible? i mean, don't get me wrong there's room for that. i actually enjoy a lot of mmo's that are pretty solidly non-pvp games. that being said... i just don't get it. it'd be like making a warhammer game with only social encounters.
 
a c i d.f l y

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Considering your building will collapse down to a single item in your inventory that you can plant in another location if you join a server where someone has planted a base where yours was when you logout, and nothing actually gets destroyed when it's attacked, just damaged and requiring repair... Seems very padded, which in a way discourages pvp. I'm curious how well the coop aspect is going to work, as that may be more of a thing. Is it just gonna be a sandbox, or will it have a million quests, or objectives, a comprehensive, multipath storyline, or just "another settlement needs your help" bullshit. I've seen pics of a group with different colored exosuits. Will healers be a thing? Or tanks? If my buddy attacks, does it negate my stealth?

Is this a game I'm gonna want to pick up for maybe 2 months, only to realize I should have waited 6-8+mo for all the DLC to drop, and get a $30 package that includes everything that should have been included in the original game?
 
Jozu

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I think dynamic pvp is the future of gaming. Some people will never enjoy it any fashion, but until you have truly experienced real pvp, and the exhilaration that comes with it, it's hard to understand its appeal.

Asherons Call Darktide was fucked and I'm not advocating for that style, but it was also fun as fuck and the consequences and rewards were real.

When in game items are on the line, as well as your reputation and time, it becomes more than just a game, you become invested in your character in ways that aren't reachable otherwise.
 
Phazael

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Yeah, no. No one wants a fair fight, ever. No PvP system that rewards cat assing has EVER been remotely fair or fun. You want this sort of griefer fest, there is a host of failed games out there you could be playing without trying to insert this bullshit into this franchise. This franchise has been mostly about the story and atmosphere, which is why it has survived the massive change from turn based isometric to shooter-RPG. The mechanics were never central to the enjoyment of the game, beyond their ability to tie into the unique setting. This is going to be Rebull sucking cat assess farming up power armor to grief the fuck out of casuals, which is what has happened to every game that has ever even remotely attempted something like this. Whats worse, those Bethesda fucks actually seem to have a hardon for the griefing. You know why? They only play in house with the other idiots they hire who can't give them the full frontal male nudity griefing experience, because they have to see the dude they are TBagging face to face at work the next day, possibly even their boss at that. Someone should have shoved the brain trust as late to the party Conan Exiles players and made them play that for a month and see how they feel about it after that.
 
Bubbles

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I feel this game is gonna be a hot mess. It's neither this or that. It wants to be something but it will be all over the place. Knowing Bethesda, most things will be broken, buggy and lackluster in general. Great ideas, poor execution. That should be their motto. In the past they have pretty much relied on modders to "fix" their games but modders can't really do shit when it comes to online side of stuff.
 
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Regime

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Phazael said:
Yeah, no. No one wants a fair fight, ever. No PvP system that rewards cat assing has EVER been remotely fair or fun. You want this sort of griefer fest, there is a host of failed games out there you could be playing without trying to insert this bullshit into this franchise. This franchise has been mostly about the story and atmosphere, which is why it has survived the massive change from turn based isometric to shooter-RPG. The mechanics were never central to the enjoyment of the game, beyond their ability to tie into the unique setting. This is going to be Rebull sucking cat assess farming up power armor to grief the fuck out of casuals, which is what has happened to every game that has ever even remotely attempted something like this. Whats worse, those Bethesda fucks actually seem to have a hardon for the griefing. You know why? They only play in house with the other idiots they hire who can't give them the full frontal male nudity griefing experience, because they have to see the dude they are TBagging face to face at work the next day, possibly even their boss at that. Someone should have shoved the brain trust as late to the party Conan Exiles players and made them play that for a month and see how they feel about it after that.
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Jozu

Jozu

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Why are so many gamers traumatized by being griefed?

It isn't enjoyable or fun, but there HAS to be an element of real consequence or else the entire concept fails.

You got killed by a lvl 55 dude with legendary items and you didn't have shit and were a lvl 6 noob? Oh well, make friends figure out a way to level up yourself, create allies, FIGURE IT OUT.

Instead most players cry and quit.

The reward of killing that same griefing faggot with your lvl 64 buddy is more exhilarating than any other outcome in the gaming space.

Honorable actors wont behave that way anyway, true griefing faggots get what's coming to them. That system basically creates a subset of players who either stand up to griefing faggots, or become one themselves. That dynamic alone is interesting and organic, something that isn't attainable with a bland no pvp environment.

There are pros and cons to everything.
 
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a c i d.f l y

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UO is the only game where PVP made any sense at all, and was utterly ruined when they added the "safe side". Many times I'd been doing my cartography or mining thing and someone ganks my toon, only for me to log on to my other character, rune port to that location and stab him to get my shit back. Didn't even need buddies except to come res my guy. Though my miner had 100str and 100swords, so if you managed to kill me, it was because I wasn't wearing GM plate due to weight (likely bone armor covered by a cloak), pure luck, or I fucked up dropping an explosive potion in time to swap my weapon.... My cartographer, no so much.

However, if you rolled with with a group of red bros on horseback, you pretty much took no quarter, just killed dudes because they were in the way and likely left their corpse. What are they gonna have? 500g and some dyes? Ain't got time to dick around with you when farming for silver indestructible shit of slaying.
 
Phazael

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Jozu said:
Why are so many gamers traumatized by being griefed?

It isn't enjoyable or fun, but there HAS to be an element of real consequence or else the entire concept fails.

You got killed by a lvl 55 dude with legendary items and you didn't have shit and were a lvl 6 noob? Oh well, make friends figure out a way to level up yourself, create allies, FIGURE IT OUT.

Instead most players cry and quit.

The reward of killing that same griefing faggot with your lvl 64 buddy is more exhilarating than any other outcome in the gaming space.

Honorable actors wont behave that way anyway, true griefing faggots get what's coming to them. That system basically creates a subset of players who either stand up to griefing faggots, or become one themselves. That dynamic alone is interesting and organic, something that isn't attainable with a bland no pvp environment.

There are pros and cons to everything.
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That mindset does not fit this franchise, in the slightest. Plus if you never played UO, you cannot fathom what a bunch of no lifers with a head start can due to ruin the entire experience for everyone. The kind of people who like Fallout are not the masochists who feel like getting their shit pushed in and not being able to make any progress. The Souls games are the only ones to hit the balance that keeps the griefers in check, but interested. And we both no that in no universe is Bethesda as talented as From Soft.
 
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Cybsled

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They've stated the PVP is going to be opt-in. The question exists what form does that take (ie, do you enter a specific spot and PVP is live? is it a flag? is it duels?). Heck, it might even be a server setting...you either queue for PVE or PVP and the game places you on the appropriate server. But they've made it clear already it isn't going to be like DayZ where you log in and some bandit with a sniper rifle and stealth suit instagibs you and steals your shit. So why people think this is going to be UO/Shadowbane/DayZ just demonstrates people complaining about online have shown zero effort in getting game info after the initial E3 reveal. Stop fucking REEEEing and start REEading some of Todd's interviews post E3.
 
Jozu

Jozu

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There are levels to the shit, obviously, but at the end of the day a solid system and parameter set should create exciting circumstances and environments for the player base.

There are always ways to mitigate faggot tendancies, death items, temp death penalty, xp loss, faction loss, bounty's the list goes on and on.

But yea I do agree most Fallout fans dont want that shit, I just hope they dont waste time on something trivial or dumb.
 
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