Gender Integration in the Infantry, and how Robots fight Misogyny

Agraza

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The US Army isn't a men's organization. It is paid for by the taxes of every working citizen. Women are paying for it and have a right to join it. There isn't a WUSMC. They represent all of us and should be represented by all of us. That doesn't mean every person is fit for every role, and the roles developed by men for men aren't always suitable for women.
 

Palum

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The US Army isn't a men's organization. It is paid for by the taxes of every working citizen. Women are paying for it and have a right to join it. There isn't a WUSMC. They represent all of us and should be represented by all of us. That doesn't mean every person is fit for every role, and the roles developed by men for men aren't always suitable for women.
That is not the argument being presented by several on the side of full integration, much less the SJW clowncult. It is the old tired 'repression' 'inequity' blah blah, screw reality or pragmatism. Why is there no movement to better integrate coal mining?
 

Agraza

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I'm sure there are women who have wanted to be coal miners and have been turned away due to gender in the past. I don't think that's relevant to this topic. I'm not interested in defending the arguments of SJWs. I suspect there are plenty of hateful ideologues among them just as there are against them. People are shitty. It ain't on me.
 

Furry

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I have nothing wrong with the concept of women dying, i just think it shouldn't happen at the expense of capable men who would otherwise live.
 

Swagdaddy

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I have no issue with anyone being allowed to do anything they want as long as it is logical and safe.

a_skeleton_03 is pretty accurate the issues I observed are when you are conducting a long or continuous operation the women would just get fatigued much quicker than the men and became a liability and safety risk to themselves and those around them, and these were like top .05% soldiers that had gone through tough selections and all.

One additional thing as much as most men would say "I don't care they shouldn't get special treatment if they are out on operation they are just another soldier/ranger" it's just nature for men to want to help the struggling female and it becomes a legitimate distraction.
 

Tuco

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Autonomous units like this and exoskeletons may solve most physical disparity issues in a few decades. I doubt heavy lifting applications will be applicable to stealthier, more individually demanding roles like rangers/seals for some time.



Eventually the machines will be so powerful you'll be more of a technical operator. They could even autonomously stand guard while you sleep or have someone remote them to do the same. One day they might just keep walking while you sleep inside it.

We're not there yet, but mechanized infantry is about to take on a whole other meaning. Once the suits start doing 80% of the work it'll still be a male driven environment though. Women are actually better adapted to the rigors of being fighter pilots due to blood circulation, but it's incredibly rare to find women who have the same level of aggression that men exhibit - a necessary characteristic of fighter pilots. The same will apply to the infantry.
There's no reason why you should expect that in a few decades autonomous pack carrying systems will solve most physical disparity issues. If we get an unforeseen breakthrough in battery tech, there will be a chance. There's a reason why Ironman's suit is centered around a fantasy device.
 

Tuco

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yeah i get it. gear is heavy so only men can carry it. if it was any lighter people would point and laugh at your 'bitch-rifle'
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Tuco

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I don't really get why "Let women into all branches of the military, treat them exactly the same and make them pass identical tests." is a problem for those who think women should be in the military. Special tests and treatment in the field is bizarre.
 

Chukzombi

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damn, tuco is a straight up special individual today, insulting my uncle who fought in ww2 and then infracting me for an honest reply. seriously, how do you live with yourself?
 

Agraza

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I'm pretty sure the pack mule runs on petroleum right now. I can't find engine info, but they always refer to it carrying fuel for X miles/hours of use. They've been pushing hard to reduce the engine noise, which ought to be easy if it's not an internal combustion engine.
 

Gavinmad

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damn, tuco is a straight up special individual today, insulting my uncle who fought in ww2 and then infracting me for an honest reply. seriously, how do you live with yourself?
Well the bottom line is that Tuco is a childish, irrelevant little bitch who needs to start resisting that urge to log back on to the forums.
 

Palum

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I'm sure there are women who have wanted to be coal miners and have been turned away due to gender in the past. I don't think that's relevant to this topic. I'm not interested in defending the arguments of SJWs. I suspect there are plenty of hateful ideologues among them just as there are against them. People are shitty. It ain't on me.
Right but the point is that the convenient data points change based on desired results. No SJW is arguing for "fair standards" (ie double) in coal mining because it's undesirable work. They military issue they are happy to divorce reality with the problem. The fact is it's not just a gender issue, there are plenty of unqualified males- tall people who can't fit in an MBT or fighter jet, wiry dudes who can't lift twenty pounds for hours, overweight dudes who just aren't able to do the job.

Hence my question regarding the WNBA- why can't underperforming men join? Or rather, why not unify men's and women's and simply make performance brackets. Wouldn't that be more fair? Yet that's sexist to some people in the same way that white pride is racism and holocaust but anything else pride is a stunning and brave display of cultural identity.
 

a_skeleton_03

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The military has all kinds of height and weight standards also.

The Marines a few years back implemented what they call the Military Appearance Program (MAP). With that program you can be within height and weight standards but just look like a bag of shit so they kick you out.

MAP Assessments. Commanders will conduct military appearance assessments based upon personal appearance indicators (personal hygiene, grooming and uniform wear) and improper distribution/excessive accumulation of body fat.
Basically if you lose weight but still look terrible or if you are just a slob in general they can just kick you out.

Commander's MAP. Because Marines come in all shapes and sizes, there is an imperative to ensure that the Commander has a continuous say in the assignment of his Marines to programs dealing with body composition and military appearance. The authority of the Commander is such that should he or she decide that a Marine is within height and weight standards, the body composition percentages, or both, that Marine can still be assigned to the MAP. Such an assignment would normally be oriented towards weight redistribution, vice loss, and a Marine should be given the benefits of the informal program before being formally assigned to the MAP.
I don't know that some of these women want to be subjected to a lot of bullshit rules and regulations that they get away with now but would not in an infantry unit.
 

Chukzombi

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Right but the point is that the convenient data points change based on desired results. No SJW is arguing for "fair standards" (ie double) in coal mining because it's undesirable work. They military issue they are happy to divorce reality with the problem. The fact is it's not just a gender issue, there are plenty of unqualified males- tall people who can't fit in an MBT or fighter jet, wiry dudes who can't lift twenty pounds for hours, overweight dudes who just aren't able to do the job.

Hence my question regarding the WNBA- why can't underperforming men join? Or rather, why not unify men's and women's and simply make performance brackets. Wouldn't that be more fair? Yet that's sexist to some people in the same way that white pride is racism and holocaust but anything else pride is a stunning and brave display of cultural identity.
the answer is the WNBA should not exist, nobody watches their games or even bothers with their championships. can anyone here without having to google it remember who won the WNBA championship this year or any year or can even name the teams who played in it? i understand that the WNBA only still exists because the NBA is propping it up financially. i have read that the WNBA isnt even as good as the worst male college teams, they would probably have a tough time beating a high school male basketball team.
 

Erronius

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I'm pretty sure the pack mule runs on petroleum right now. I can't find engine info, but they always refer to it carrying fuel for X miles/hours of use. They've been pushing hard to reduce the engine noise, which ought to be easy if it's not an internal combustion engine.
If it's the same engine as in BigDog (I assume that it is), it's a 15 HP go-kart engine.

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What gets me in general with stuff like this is that much of the time the R&D is interesting and may bear fruit eventually, but in the here and now you can literally field other options that a robotic mule can't match. If you want to field a machine with ICE powertrain to help carry gear, you can use something like the legacy M274 or do what they are already doing and militarize 4-wheelers or gators. In my old Cav units, movement-to-contact, probing, and then falling back to provide flank and rear security while heavier combat elements engage was the order of the day so something like a 4-legged mule would be a liability (too slow, too specialized, can't match wheeled/tracked vehicles at all). If you don't want engine noise and high speed isn't necessary (matching grunt footspeed), then it's infinitely easier to either use literal mules or horses, or just...add a few more grunts to help hump that shit.
 

Tuco

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If it's the same engine as in BigDog (I assume that it is), it's a 15 HP go-kart engine.

================================================== ============

What gets me in general with stuff like this is that much of the time the R&D is interesting and may bear fruit eventually, but in the here and now you can literally field other options that a robotic mule can't match. If you want to field a machine with ICE powertrain to help carry gear, you can use something like the legacy M274 or do what they are already doing and militarize 4-wheelers or gators. In my old Cav units, movement-to-contact, probing, and then falling back to provide flank and rear security while heavier combat elements engage was the order of the day so something like a 4-legged mule would be a liability (too slow, too specialized, can't match wheeled/tracked vehicles at all). If you don't want engine noise and high speed isn't necessary (matching grunt footspeed), then it's infinitely easier to either use literal mules or horses, or just...add a few more grunts to help hump that shit.
Yep. The DoD should continue funding ground robotics (and not just because that's how I get fed), but there are some real challenges that won't just be solved without unpredictable advances.
 

Lejina

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I think women could do just fine at some things. Any reason a woman couldn't be a sniper?
Unit I was at we used to host an international sniper concentration. 20-24 teams on average and teams were generally made of a senior NCO bringing the knowledge and 2-3 juniors looking to soak as much information as they could. 5 years there and only one woman qualified sniper ever showed up. Quite the specimen that one was. Regular infantry is tough enough as it is, being employed as a sniper is quite a different ballgame. Loads are significantly heavier (my rifle alone was 26lbs, not counting the extra food, water and shit (literally, lugging around your own feces in ziploc bags was always a good time), you're on your own and there's a lot less guys with you. Oh geez, someone twist their ankle and you can hear bones crackling under the skin? Tough shit, it's not like the other two guys can take an extra 70lbs each, so walk it out.

Women did alright as marksman with the ruskies during WWII and the Vietcongs in 'Nam, but those had little to do with how snipers are employed by modern forces.
 

a_skeleton_03

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Women did alright as marksman with the ruskies during WWII and the Vietcongs in 'Nam, but those had little to do with how snipers are employed by modern forces.
Yeah the women snipers in those situations were mostly "defensive" on their own territory so no need to infiltrate into an enemy country behind lines without supply routes.