Gunman opens fire at Oregon mall outside of Portland

So I read an article on yahoo stating that the murderer stole the ar-15 from someone he knew. Also I think someone could wear body armor while hunting. Makes sense, ever been sprayed by a rain of birdshot while quail hunting and how many hunting accidents could be averted if the person had body armor.

I wonder how the owner of the gun that was stolen had it stored.

I'm all for holding people liable for damages if they don't lock up their shit.

Gavinrad_sl said:

Opens fire in a crowded mall and only kills two people?

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Sucky, but this *is* FoH, so-

Pic relevant, if a tad obvious.

Flunklesnarkin_sl said:

I wonder how the owner of the gun that was stolen had it stored.

I'm all for holding people liable for damages if they don't lock up their shit.

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Me too.

Piers Morgan is all about this and guns tonight.

In his opening thing, he put a statistic up that almost 48,000 people were killed by guns in the US from 2006 to 2010.

That is fucking shocking.

For some perspective, the US had 58,000 KIA in the 10 years of the Vietnam war. Something like 2600 US KIA in Afghanistan and Iraq combined between 2006 and 2010.

And the thing that really rustles my jimmies are kids that die in accidental shootings because mom and dad cant be fucked to secure their firearms. At the minimum I think people should have to go though some sort of safety and proficiency training before they are allowed to keep a firearm at home, maybe make it mandatory for all family members with more strigent training required for high capacity/caliber firearms.

European no-gun country here. It's not actually no-gun but getting a permit here requires 1 year of active membership at a shooting range, and a thorough background check. You need two safes at home to store gun and ammo seperately. Police does random house visits to see if you're complying, at least yearly.

Kids accidentally shooting themselves with daddy's gun is unheard of. We have had only asingle mall shootingwith a licensed gun in the last 60 years, and that was by a guy with mental issues (including multiple suicide attempts) and a history of air gun incidents, whose permit should never have been issued. His parents actually asked the police to take his permit away, and the cops did nothing. I consider this a failure of law enforcement rather than a gun ownership problem.

I think it's hard to deny that adding some real responsibility to gun ownership works. That's nothing like taking people's guns away, and I'd probably like to see more private ownership in Europe than less.

Alcohol Tobacco Firearms should be the name of a convenience store not a government agency. =P

I just have to comment on that video on page 4. That is some of the funniest shit I've seen in awhile. I've never seen 2 dudes run out of a building so damn fast, I almost fell out of my chair.

"My excellent colleagues have forgotten these bitter lessons
of history. The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines
the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second
Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those
exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have
failed-where the government refuses to stand for reelection
and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the
courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees.
However improbable these contingencies may seem today,
facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make
only once."

- Judge Kozinski

http://notabug.com/kozinski/silveira_v_lockyer

Lambourne_sl said:

European no-gun country here. It's not actually no-gun but getting a permit here requires 1 year of active membership at a shooting range, and a thorough background check. You need two safes at home to store gun and ammo seperately. Police does random house visits to see if you're complying, at least yearly.

Kids accidentally shooting themselves with daddy's gun is unheard of. We have had only asingle mall shootingwith a licensed gun in the last 60 years, and that was by a guy with mental issues (including multiple suicide attempts) and a history of air gun incidents, whose permit should never have been issued. His parents actually asked the police to take his permit away, and the cops did nothing. I consider this a failure of law enforcement rather than a gun ownership problem.

I think it's hard to deny that adding some real responsibility to gun ownership works. That's nothing like taking people's guns away, and I'd probably like to see more private ownership in Europe than less.

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See, this sounds reasonable to me, other than the yearly police visits. People here would strongly object to that and the amount of resouces to make it happen would be prohibitive anyway.

Maybe something like safety classes and background checks for all gun owners, 6 months at a range for anything more than a double barrel shotgun or single shot hunting rifle, more for concealed carry. Force people to periodically update thier license with range time. Must provide proof of secure firearm storage before permit is issued. Shit, go ahead and allow full auto weapons after 1 year of ownership\range time.

That should cut down on many (not all) gun deaths, and people can still own whatever the fuck they want.

Gun is just the new spear/sword/poison dart. Its innovation is to kill. Its not on the level of a cannon, or a F-16, or a warship, those don't have a survival function (hunting game). Guns should be hard to get, but criminals or those looking to do harm will always find guns if they need them. There is definitely an argument to be made that if two people have guns and get in a fight that the guns are more likely to come out instead of just a fist fight. That said, guns definitely even the playing field from a genetic lottery standpoint. Even I, a severely crippled person with arthritis, could kill someone with a multitude of hunting rifles, which is not something I could have done in the past without said weapon. I'm definitely pro-gun ownership, but it is a really a dangerous recipe from the standpoint that people are so bad at resolving their problems without resorting to some kind of violence.

Pretty sure I read something about organized crime violence in Britain, there is a lot more thuggery with bats/clubs as those are easy to own. But if it came down to it the mafia still has an arsenal of guns to leverage if they need to. Maybe a Brit can clean up my incomplete knowledge.

Tmac47_sl said:

Seeing as its a 2nd Amendment right, it's rather weird to me that gun safety classes aren't offered in every high school in America.

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I don't understand why you find the lack of classes weird. Many rights are not covered in their own high school classes.

Someone above mentioned gun death statistics. Those statistics often include a large number of suicides.

Tmac47_sl said:

Seeing as its a 2nd Amendment right, it's rather weird to me that gun safety classes aren't offered in every high school in America. Having gun awareness weeks in elementary and middle schools isn't a bad idea either. If knowledge is power, one of the best ways to prevent gun accidents is to educate our youth in how to properly use andrespectfirearms.

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Firearm Awareness week for schoolkids is a fantastic idea.

Simas_sl said:

I don't understand why you find the lack of classes weird. Many rights are not covered in their own high school classes.

Someone above mentioned gun death statistics. Those statistics often include a large number of suicides.

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I dont think the number (48000 from 2006-2010) included suicides, I think it is just homicides. There were 17,000 gun suicide deaths (and 12,000 homicides) in 2007 alone.

Pretty similar data for 2009 (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ook-post-says/). 18,000 suicides, 11,000 homicides, 33,000 total gun deaths in the US. In one year.

Restricting autonomy and/or agency in the name of societal welfare runs contrary to America's meta narrative of, "Freedom! I can urinate in my sinks if I wanna! (only urinated in 2/8 of sorority sinks in college, fml)". Granted, 'Mericuhhhhh does it all the fucking time: drug war, TSA, drinking/driving age.

So a couple of my friends wee actually friends with the shooter (work friend/high school), they all claim he was completely sane and normal but guess like the last year he kind of went crazy and his family couldn't get in touch with him. I'm interested in seeing what the police find out on back story.

Sounds like your suicidal person who wants to go down in the history books.

BrutulTM_sl said:

Even if this were true (I don't know if is) murder follows almost the same profile.

If gun control is some sort of panacea for crime then we should expect a drop in murder after a huge ban right?

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That spike in '03 is the inclusion of all of the victims of the most prolific serial killer in history. Take it out and you have statistical noise.

fifey_sl said:

So a couple of my friends wee actually friends with the shooter (work friend/high school), they all claim he was completely sane and normal but guess like the last year he kind of went crazy and his family couldn't get in touch with him. I'm interested in seeing what the police find out on back story.

Sounds like your suicidal person who wants to go down in the history books.

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How old was he? Schizophrenia kicks in around the early 20's for males most often. Saw it happen with the younger brother of a friend of mine, it was pretty sad. Thankfully he's getting treatment and was institutionalized before he'd hurt anyone.

edit: yup, 22.