Is the MMO Market imploding?

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
18,932
73,921
@ OP,
No more than other traditional gaming markets. There have been no truly 'new' type MMOs in ages and the most polished was released almost a decade ago. The market is saturated in similar style games. Compared to 2001, the market is still fairly stable and large even with the quasi-clones. People are bored but all the industry needs is something fresh again.
 

blumpster_sl

shitlord
71
0
Traditional MMOs from powerful developers are archaic. World of Warcraft was the beginning of the end. It took too many subs, brought too many diverse gamer types to the genre, and over time deteriorated with its catering to players the essence of the classic MMO: a struggle against a paradigm. Blizzard attempted a paradigm shift when they started instituting daily quests, gear redundancy/solvency, and then raid equality. More options is not always better. Playing to the crowd is almost never a good option. Governments fail because of it. Companies fail because of it. And now an entire genre of video game is collapsing because of it. EverQuest developers never listened to their player base. Furor and Tigole constantly bashed their decisions, yet they still drove their guilds ahead and praised certain aspects of the game. Through their struggle and grief players forged alliances with other members of their community. The entire process is akin to the drill instructor instilling mutual hatred towards himself amongst his maggots; the most important part of being a leader is leading, which means doing potentially self-damning things for the greater good. Producers and developers don't do that anymore. They take the easy road. They gather information, read forums, do podcasts and create transparency in an effort to build a trust with the players, but trust isn't earned through succumbing to the whims of the mob. That was the downfall of Rome.

Now we're left with pay2win models and knock off games whose only ingenuity and diversity are funky graphics and dildo lightsabers. WoW proved you don't have to innovate, you just have to polish and take a passionate interest in what your game is all about. I hate to bring it up, but we need a game that has The Vision. Call it crazy, maniacal overlord tendency, or whatever you want, but these games are supposed to be based around the D&D model where the gamemaster does everything in his power to challenge you and hopefully kill you. Simply put, developers these days have no balls, and it's all our fault. Or better yet, it's the fault of all the people that decided to invade the niche environment that had been created, and with their infection came the parasitic greed that we see so readily in the genre presently.

In the ocean of MMOs all the games are these tightly wound life jackets suffocating the players as they bob around helpless, unlike previously, like in EverQuest, where the game was a giant fucking ship with majestic sails and grizzly pirates shooting muzzle loaders down at the players as they tried to throw grappling hooks onto the deck and hopefully hoist themselves up and snag a piece of loot or two.
 

EmiliaEQ_sl

shitlord
110
0
I tried (at last) SWTOR because a friend insisted it was awesome : As a lvl1 Commando i cleared a fort taken over by 20+ rebels, got called a hero/savior by the NPCS and my NCO.
I also had a quest journal with "Kill 4 Snipers, go to Location X, Find Lt. Y" and of course an easy to follow map with every little detail needed present.

A long long time ago, just after making my warrior i fell off a platform in Kelethin and lost my corpse, when i finally(safely) got down i ended up moving around and at some point got jumped by a couple of wasps, i died again and lost my corpse.
Being overly curious and as nothing outright attacked me if i left it alone, i discovered a cave entrance with dead Orcs, zoned in.. the welcoming committee was Dvinn'ish.

Ever wondered which felt more like "a dangerous adventure into the unknown" ?
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
I tried (at last) SWTOR because a friend insisted it was awesome : As a lvl1 Commando i cleared a fort taken over by 20+ rebels, got called a hero/savior by the NPCS and my NCO.
I also had a quest journal with 4 entries, and an easy to follow map with every little detail needed present.

A long long time ago, just after making my warrior i fell off a platform in Kelethin and lost my corpse, when i finally(safely) got down i ended up moving around and at some point got jumped by a couple of wasps, i died again and lost my corpse.
Being overly curious and as nothing outright attacked me if i left it alone, i discovered a cave entrance with dead Orcs, zoned in.. the welcoming committee was Dvinn'ish.

Ever wondered which felt more like "a dangerous adventure into the unknown" ?
Yup, sums it up nicely.
 

Fish1_sl

shitlord
188
0
Burrrrrrn! Sad thing is, no big company has the balls to make a game like that anymore. It's not "accessible".
 

Sithro

Molten Core Raider
1,493
196
It's hard to gauge because the industry itself is always laying off. It's a shitty industry honestly and it needs to be reworked.

That said, MMO's have lost their luster in the gaming community because the majority of people see them for what the modern MMO is - a carrot on a stick errands game. What MMO developersfail to realize is that if you make a game that REQUIRES people to interact in order to do anything then those people will stick around longer because they've made friends and there is a camaraderie among the server population.If you quit in any modern MMO nobody will give a fuck. You are just another ant in the colony. Which is why I can shit talk WoW all day and it means nothing because there is no community to black list me from in the game. I could call everyone in a top raiding guild a cunt faggot and it wouldn't matter because I could just level a new character in a week and be right back where I was because my reputation means nothing in that game and the time required to get back into raid worthiness is minimal. Let's not forget also that as long as you can breath through your nose and have two hands a raid guild will suck your dick just to join nowadays.
This part right here.

When you play through an MMO by yourself, and get to the end without having to make friends, etc. What's to keep you playing?

Nothing.

So many MMOs now try so fucking hard to make sure you don't have to interact, it's fucking dumb. WoW itself might as well not have an over world now.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,380
276
I'm not happy about people losing their jobs, that always sucks. But looking at the genre, for the kind of games I want as MMORPGs, a complete fallout and return to being niche isnt the worst thing that can happen. The last decade of popularity certainly hasnt provided what I am looking in these games. If gaming mainstream focus switches from copying MMORPGs to copying MOBAs as the latest fad that's just fine with me.
 

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
80
The market isn't dead. Players are just waiting for a game that isn't the same rehashed shit.
 

Drajakur

Molten Core Raider
562
452
The product has completely stagnated, the market is saturated with similar unspectacular offerings, and the financial model has changed since the early days of MMOs. There will be far more layoffs in that segment to come. Plus, the demographic that used to play MMOs heavily (us - when we were youngish) are now playing mobile games and MOBA titles. We were the DnD generation looking to finally play DnD in a huge shared world; today's younger demographic (i.e. the one that would continue to drive sales of MMOs) instead is growing up without that sense of slow, evolving, social gaming, which is part of the reason why current MMOs try so hard to make them isolated experiences with a few opportunities for further engagement.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
This is just business. No different when a contractor bids a job and gets it. He probably has 20 good men on the payroll all the time but then calls up 30-50 more due to the size of the job. Once the job is over and everything is under control or there is nothing in the foreseeable future, he lays off the 30-50 until they are needed again.

MMO's have been aggressive in the past and they have been rearranging and shifting to fit their personal and payrolls into today's economy. You're seeing nothing different that every business in the world is doing as well.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
This is just business. No different when a contractor bids a job and gets it. He probably has 20 good men on the payroll all the time but then calls up 30-50 more due to the size of the job. Once the job is over and everything is under control or there is nothing in the foreseeable future, he lays off the 30-50 until they are needed again.

MMO's have been aggressive in the past and they have been rearranging and shifting to fit their personal and payrolls into today's economy. You're seeing nothing different that every business in the world is doing as well.
This and if there is any imploding it's studios that make really shitty games.
 

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
I tried (at last) SWTOR because a friend insisted it was awesome : As a lvl1 Commando i cleared a fort taken over by 20+ rebels, got called a hero/savior by the NPCS and my NCO.
I also had a quest journal with "Kill 4 Snipers, go to Location X, Find Lt. Y" and of course an easy to follow map with every little detail needed present.

A long long time ago, just after making my warrior i fell off a platform in Kelethin and lost my corpse, when i finally(safely) got down i ended up moving around and at some point got jumped by a couple of wasps, i died again and lost my corpse.
Being overly curious and as nothing outright attacked me if i left it alone, i discovered a cave entrance with dead Orcs, zoned in.. the welcoming committee was Dvinn'ish.

Ever wondered which felt more like "a dangerous adventure into the unknown" ?
Someone send this shit to ponytail and Butler right now.

One of the clearer , "here's what's gone wrong with mmos " posts I've seen.
 

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider
16,040
19,501
Oh great, another thread where people talk about shitty Eq design like it's the greatest thing ever. Newsflash: You're not an enlightened few who can look down on the lesser lifeforms because you know what's great and they're all 14 year old CoD fans screaming obscenities into their headset.

If you think falling to your death as soon as you start out and then being murdered with no chance of survival is better than taking out a fort of storm troopers then that's fine, but you're delusional if you think that's "better"
 

EmiliaEQ_sl

shitlord
110
0
Oh great, another thread where people talk about shitty Eq design like it's the greatest thing ever. Newsflash: You're not an enlightened few who can look down on the lesser lifeforms because you know what's great and they're all 14 year old CoD fans screaming obscenities into their headset.
If you think falling to your death as soon as you start out and then being murdered with no chance of survival is better than taking out a fort of storm troopers then that's fine, but you're delusional if you think that's "better"
And like most devs, you miss the point, it's not about masochistic ball busting, ragefire camps, falling to your death, not seeing 2 roamers that came to assist (these were more or less lame).
It's about "HERO MODE".

Instead of "Try and go find us help" you are asked to "Single-handedly clear a military fort that was taken over by storm rebels/troopers" ! (taking 2 pulls, 3 pulls, even a roamer without blinking).
My friend told me "the class campaign are amazing"... right so i'm on rails from day 1... talk about "exploring a dangerous world".

I play a MMO to be bear grylls ! i dont want a squire with a golden caddie by my side praising me at lvl1 and saying i'm better than chuck norris and tiger woods put together...
I want "here is a rusty knife, welcome to the wild wild west, now go fuck yourself" however i get "my lord welcome to floor3 : furniture, home appliances, televisions".

It's not about reproducing EQ's retarded ideas, its about changing today's "Take over fort Knox to radio for help" into "find a way to radio for help or we all die".
A detail ? i beg to differ...
 

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
It's the games industry in general, not a certain genre. The B level is dead, you have AAA and indie at this point. If your $80+ million project fails, so does your studio.
 

dgrabs_sl

shitlord
172
0
Mobile gaming has completely transformed the entire gaming landscape. People want instant satisfaction, or something close to it. This is something you're starting to see transition over to typical MMOs. You can't afford to let a F2P gamer get frustrated and instantly uninstall your game because they didn't immediately know what to do or how they can "win" something. There's a tiny window to hook a new player and keep them coming back for more, and that window is opened by bullshit rewards and the feeling of being good ASAP. That's why you were able to clear a fort with 20+ rebels at level 1. They want to make you feel powerful from the minute you step into the game, despite how illogical that may be.

These aren't games anymore, they're businesses. F2P is going to ruin the genre because the focus isn't going to be about making the game fun to keep the customer subscribed, it's about figuring out every possible way to monetize the game world and user experience to pad the bottom line. The people signing the paychecks of the guys making these games don't want to see a 10% ROI over 10 years, which is what a typical EQ-like MMO is primed to do over time.

For those of us who grew up playing games where danger was real and there were true consequences for your actions, this trend is incredibly hard to swallow.
 

Adebisi

Clump of Cells
<Silver Donator>
27,680
32,722
Do you remember when someone would get a very rare weapon or armor piece? People would crowd around in awe of your awesomeness.

Does that even happen anymore? I haven't played WoW theriously since WOTLK and it seemed that everyone was geared with the same shit. Nothing to gawk at or fap to.
 

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
I do miss fapping to the first Hand of Rag I ever seen.

I don't think the market is dying, maybe the game market in general there has been a lot of layoffs in the last year or so.
 

nuday

Golden Squire
203
8
Mobile gaming has completely transformed the entire gaming landscape. People want instant satisfaction, or something close to it. This is something you're starting to see transition over to typical MMOs. You can't afford to let a F2P gamer get frustrated and instantly uninstall your game because they didn't immediately know what to do or how they can "win" something. There's a tiny window to hook a new player and keep them coming back for more, and that window is opened by bullshit rewards and the feeling of being good ASAP. That's why you were able to clear a fort with 20+ rebels at level 1. They want to make you feel powerful from the minute you step into the game, despite how illogical that may be.

These aren't games anymore, they're businesses. F2P is going to ruin the genre because the focus isn't going to be about making the game fun to keep the customer subscribed, it's about figuring out every possible way to monetize the game world and user experience to pad the bottom line. The people signing the paychecks of the guys making these games don't want to see a 10% ROI over 10 years, which is what a typical EQ-like MMO is primed to do over time.

For those of us who grew up playing games where danger was real and there were true consequences for your actions, this trend is incredibly hard to swallow.
I'm sure that this would be a terrible business model, but fuck all the "gamers" who can't spend ten minutes reading quest text to figure out where to go, or actually working to achieve something in an MMO. If they want instant gratification, let them stay on facebook. I don't understand why the gaming industry panders so much to "casual". Shit, I barely have time to play games anymore, but I'd rather spend my hour of gaming playing a game that reminds me somewhat of the stuff I played years ago than the facebook game my wife plays in her spare time. If it takes me a really long time to do something on a game because I don't have the time somebody else does, oh well... that person will have it before me, I guess.

This reminds me of all the RPGs being action-RPGs now because developers claim that Western gamers don't want anything else.