Lost Ark Online

Cybsled said:

LA and NW are pretty different games. LA seems to have more in common with Diablo than WoW/FF14.

Numbers from Korea/China are always "take with a grain of salt" since most of that shit comes from PC Cafes/PC Bangs vs. actual personal PC ownership and those audiences are already conditioned for p2w bullshit.

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Hm, I disagree. I would LA has the combat style of BDO in an isometric format, but also the story-questing and raiding of FFXIV in the isometric format. It has very little in common with Diablo, but it will attract those players in droves (whether they stay once they see LA is a traditional MMO, dunno).

swayze22 said:

pay to progress is p2w, this is korean diablo. top 3 mmo is laughable, if we call this an MMO

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I mean it has everything any other MMO has. Then sprinkled with typical ARPG aspects(the view, picking loot up off the ground(though this is pretty common in korean games, bdo, bns, tera etc) and fighting at times a big swarm of monsters. Otherwise its a MMO in all other aspects. But even those 3 things I listed are not specific to ARPGs(isometric view has been used in other mmos and future ones, fighting a lot of monsters at once easily done before and loot off ground I mentioned). Not sure I would even come close to calling it korean diablo.

And top 3 should be pretty easy. It has WoW and FFXIV as competition.

Kirun said:

New World is going to get fucking decimated by FFXIV come the holidays, especially if people like Asmo are playing/streaming it.

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FF14 is a dogshit game. I can’t see why anyone would choose to play it over NW unless they’re heavily time invested in FF or maybe they have a deep love for jrpgs.

Chersk said:

FF14 is a dogshit game. I can’t see why anyone would choose to play it over NW unless they’re heavily time invested in FF or maybe they have a deep love for jrpgs.

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Nailed it

Zindan said:

Hm, I disagree. I would LA has the combat style of BDO in an isometric format, but also the story-questing and raiding of FFXIV in the isometric format. It has very little in common with Diablo, but it will attract those players in droves (whether they stay once they see LA is a traditional MMO, dunno).

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Maybe, but in the West it is going to basically be seen as Diablo/PoE type game. The isometric MMO like Lineage 1 and GW1 and the like was mostly an Eastern thing

I love jrpg's but FF14 is super snooze and ive tried to get into it like 4 times - even maxing chars just to force myself and its still shit

Kirun said:

Cry about it all you want, it's still the #1 MMO and New World is going to be an afterthought in 6 months time. Down in the dustbin of history with shit like Horizons: Empire of Istaria, The Agency, Wildstar, etc. It had a shot to fill a niche as an "open-world", PvP style game. Instead, they chose to WoWify it and now are caught in a situation where the game is kind of half-assing everything instead of whole-assing something.

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Niche is the keyword there. Amazon is probably expecting a decent ROI on this project and PVP heavy MMOs tend to burn out extremely fast, especially when that is really the only thing to do.

Ashes of Creation is going to have the same issue if he insists on having dumb shit like "lose half your crap when you die" and "if your town gets blown up, you lose tons of progress and materials". Shadowbane shows what happens when "Play to Crush" is the game style - the crushed just quit and you soon have a ghost town.

Kirun said:

Cry about it all you want, it's still the #1 MMO and New World is going to be an afterthought in 6 months time. Down in the dustbin of history with shit like Horizons: Empire of Istaria, The Agency, Wildstar, etc. It had a shot to fill a niche as an "open-world", PvP style game. Instead, they chose to WoWify it and now are caught in a situation where the game is kind of half-assing everything instead of whole-assing something.

It had around 240k concurrent users(just in Korea) just a little bit ago. You trust the "numbers" out of the US MMOs more? LMAO. Even if they're flubbing them, the game has seen continual growth since its release. That's really hard for an MMO to do. Most of the successful ones plateau around the year 3 or 4 year mark and the ones that don't and continue to grow? Those are the powerhouses of the industry.

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I think LA was in a rather shitty state before they wised up and released the Season 2 changes, since then its been very, very popular and deservedly so. I see it being a success here, but probably not as popular as it is in KR, certainly more so than NW if Amazon stops fucking up.

Cybsled said:

Niche is the keyword there. Amazon is probably expecting a decent ROI on this project and PVP heavy MMOs tend to burn out extremely fast, especially when that is really the only thing to do.

Ashes of Creation is going to have the same issue if he insists on having dumb shit like "lose half your crap when you die" and "if your town gets blown up, you lose tons of progress and materials". Shadowbane shows what happens when "Play to Crush" is the game style - the crushed just quit and you soon have a ghost town.

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No one who enjoys PvP, especially open pvp with loot drops, will ever admit that what they want will never, ever, ever be a popular / sustaining MMO that big money will be willing to invest in.

Kirun said:

Right, niche is absolutely the key word there. But niche MMOs can still rake in TONS of cash. One of the old EQ devs talks about how he worked on a horse adventure game for girls that was profitable the entire 7-8 years he worked on it. It doesn't really get anymore fucking niche than that.

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Right, but what were the horse game dev costs? It’s all relative.

If Amazon is dumping 100+ million on a game, niche isn’t going to cut it

Just going to ask.

Why are you guys comparing LA to FF14 and Wow and not let's say D3 any other ARPG?

Kirun said:

Probably because it has much more in common with traditional MMOs than it does with ARPGs.

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This.

The only thing it has in common with ARPGs is the isometric view and extending from that, the combat. Diablo and the like are primarily loot hunt focused, secondarily build focused. Loot in LA is static. At certain gear score thresholds you get a new set, same sets for all classes. Some sets have set bonuses, some don't. There is some rng in the secondary stats on gear and jewelry, so there is a very minor loot hunt aspect at (current max gearscore) endgame.

Like, tripod bonuses, which the gear piece has is random, as is the rank of the bonus. There's a tripod bonus "library" which is completely free to use and you can "copy" the bonuses of a piece into your library. If you want to move just one (of three) bonus to a different piece of gear, it's a percentage chance based on the rank of the bonus (failure destroys the item you are trying to copy from). There is a crafted item that increases your % a bit. So, once you've saved your "perfect" sets to your library, you can switch between them freely depending on what you're doing. Raid/dungeon/Arena.

This mechanic is also somewhat annoying. Gear also has grades at certain gearscore thresholds. Something like, grade 1 is up to 550 gearscore, and 915 to 1300 is grade 2, and 1302+ grade 3. And your library of saved tripod bonuses can only be used on gear that is the same grade as the item it was copied from. So, every time you move to a higher grade, you have to hunt for all those bonuses again.

Neranja said:

Because FF14 touched Chersk inappropriately, so he spams this exact phrase in every thread. It's like the one guy who shot his doctor because he had an ejaculation during his prostate exam.

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If someone brings up FF14 positively in multiple threads is that “spamming”? Something tells me you don’t think so.

Not that Im down playing concurrent users - but doesnt this game promote power gamers to have multiple accounts at a time? Sort of like Eve did/does?

Daidraco said:

Not that Im down playing concurrent users - but doesnt this game promote power gamers to have multiple accounts at a time? Sort of like Eve did/does?

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I wouldn't say "promotes." The people who do multiple accounts like I do (in RU) are a really tiny subset of players, and RMT farmers. Plus, people generally believe that using more than one account will get them banned. Which, technically it can. My main account got banned a couple weeks after Season 2 launch, due to their idiot CS security team's misinterpretation of one of the rules in the EULA. It took me 10 days of arguing with them, before they "made an exception" and unbanned me. They (of course) wouldn't admit that they were wrong.

It's basically similar to Archeage, every extra account is more "labor" and an extra Epona bag (gold reward for doing your dailies and weeklies). But, unlike Archeage, since the only relevant pvp is Arena(normalized), there's not as much drive to be "stronger" than anyone else.