Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

That was pretty good. Nice comic links. I don't understand the monster looking thing at the end, but I assume that's the "real" thing hidden in that box. I just don't know what it is.

Xarpolis said:

I understand that, but while he's in the matrix world, he doesn't remember the real world at all. So from his point of view, that world is the real world. He knows that it's fake, but he really loves the life that he has with his daughter in the fakeness, so when Daisy said that his daughter was dead IRL, he decided he wanted to stay with the fake one. It's not a hard decision when he doesn't remember the real world at all. The other characters at least had some sort of phantom memories, but not him. So he doesn't really remember any of his "real life" commitments or whatever. He knows that he's in something fake, but because he doesn't remember the real, this is real as far as he is concerned.

It's confusing, but it makes sense. Psychologically speaking.

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Gonna have to disagree with you here. Yes, I get that he doesn't remember the real world, but Daisy straight up tells him "You have people who really care about you...who love you very much" and he's like sorry, bro, gonna stay here in Fakeland with not_a_real_person Hope. Fuck those real people. Anyways, she should have forced him out, just like Radcliffe did with Fitz.

Xarpolis said:

That was pretty good. Nice comic links. I don't understand the monster looking thing at the end, but I assume that's the "real" thing hidden in that box. I just don't know what it is.

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Cassandra Nova-Xaviers evil twin sister, charles murdered in the womb. Stillborn, and flushed down the toilet. Survived via immense psychic power, building a new body in the sewers out of a mass of cells. Super powerful psychic.
Stuff- Shi-ar shapeshifter. who in native form looks like a giant mass of cells.

So.
Cassandra as an adult, attacks the X-men. Various things happen. She is killed. steals Charles body. Is kicked out, and tricked into returning to "her" body. which is actually Stuff's body, shifted to look like Cassandra's. Trapped in Stuff, and placed inside that metal box, to brainwash her.

Before going into the box, mind controls Emma. makes Emma think she turned evil again, and rejoined the Hellfire club. So, EMMA, now starts fucking with the Xmen. Traps each of the X-men in a dream. others break out. Kitty does not. Makes Kitty think she has a child as seen. And Kitty breaks Cassandra in Stuff's body out.

comics everybody.

SHADOWCAT: Page 7 of 10 | uncannyxmen.net

Raes said:

Gonna have to disagree with you here. Yes, I get that he doesn't remember the real world, but Daisy straight up tells him "You have people who really care about you...who love you very much" and he's like sorry, bro, gonna stay here in Fakeland with not_a_real_person Hope. Fuck those real people. Anyways, she should have forced him out, just like Radcliffe did with Fitz.

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good point. Definitely on Daisy there. It makes sense for him to want to stay from his point of view. But, from hers, thats pretty fucked up.

I will say that the whole Cassandra Nova business is when I dropped Xmen comics entirely never to read again. News articles about current goings-on in comics is enough to remind me that I'm not missing anything of note.

I still remember the series that pulled me into X-Men in the first place. I was a young that used to walk about a mile to the local 7-Eleven for a Slurpie, and one day they had a comic book.



It captured my attention, so I purchased that book (my very first comic book). I read it and was confused, so I went to the comic store with my mom and we found all of the past issues of that series, so I read them. Then I picked up the remainder of the issues when they were released. Including the issue after, where Xavier could walk again. It was a really good series. There was also a What If...? that related to that story arc as well, that I also picked up.

Someone linked a comic of Scott committing suicide. It was really fucking good. Was that you also?

Re: Mack and the framework.. you have to remember the darkhold has some magic elements to it.
Its not JUST a simulation. It is sort of a parallel dimension. The personalities created are just as real as a real person. Aida became a real person.
Macks daughter has a consciousness and feels real to him. He even said as much, that despite any logic or contrary facts (i.e. he saw its a simulation) he just cant bring himself to leave her. It doesnt feel like a simulation.

Enzee said:

Its not JUST a simulation. It is sort of a parallel dimension. The personalities created are just as real as a real person.

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Please tell us what episode any of this is said or even hinted at. Thanks.

All of them? Not sure what show you are watching. The darkhold does things that are so far beyond our tech that they are basically magic. Theyve even said things that suggested that, they just dont want to get too mystical on the show. But, showing itself to you in your native language suggests psychic/magical properties by itself. Giving ghost rider's dad the ability to create materials out of thin air. Creating an organic body out of thin air. Giving a robot consciousness to break its programming parameters and then transferring that consciousness into the body it created. Giving that body teleportation abilities.
Even in the framework, it created whole personalities out of little more then a handful of memories of a given person (fitz's dad, any of the random people the shield team had never met before, etc.. ). Theres not even the tiniest bit of real science to support all those things. Its not the same as fitz making a cell phone battery last a few weeks, or creating instant knock out guns. Those things are just stretching disbelief a tiny bit, extrapolating potential future tech based on what we can do now.

I wasn't asking about the properties of the Darkhold. I specifically quoted the relevant portion of your post.

A 100% perfect simulation of something IS that thing.

Radcliffe went on and on about this before we got a glimpse inside. That this was another world indistinguishable from reality and that it was actually just an alternate reality. It's what allowed Aida to kill him in the first place. He convinced her she wasn't killing him at all if his consciousness lived on.

The fact that Aida became self aware through the Darkhold means it has the ability to create self aware consciousness, Radcliffe and Fitz didn't do that, and all of the people inside the Framework have acted just like real people. The connections everyone felt to them was just as real as any in the 'real' world. That was Mack's entire reason for staying despite being shown they were telling the truth about the other side. Until that one moment, there was just as much evidence you and I live in a simulation as there was that he did. If right now, reality glitched around you for a second, then someone said your spouse/family/kids/whoever you care about was dead in the 'real' world.. would you immediately just go 'yea ok, my entire life doesn't matter, no problem, geronimo!!!.'.