Middle-earth: Shadow of War (Shadow of Mordor Sequel)

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Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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You fight elf Sauron in a sword fight then you fight armored Sauron and beat him in a sword fight. Its cool and lame at the same time. Alas it is the end, there can be no other ending for a LOTR game than besting the lord of the rings in combat. Act 3 ends the game

See now that right there pisses me off way more than loot crates.
 
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Utnayan

I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
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Why stop fucking you at the wallet when they can twist the knife and fuck with the lore.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Let me introduce you to Az-Laar

upload_2017-10-17_22-12-2.png


This mother fucker is my right hand man. My fire build lives off the inferno he produces with everything he does. As soon as he enters combat, he toots his horn and all hell breaks loose. He summons those sapper guys from the Sauron Strikes Back movie that blew up the wall, who ignite everyone. He thing wings out bombs and mines at dudes. And then he unleashes the massive flame cannon thing on his back and spews molten lava on every orc around.

I had to shame him to lower his level so I could dominate him, and in doing so I gave him a mortal weakness to ranged attacks. I know it's just a matter of time until some random orc head shots him or something. I should've just leveled up a few times.
 
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Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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See now that right there pisses me off way more than loot crates.

Technically speaking the lore probably does actually work - part of the starting storyline for Shadow of War (in the intro cutscenes so it's not really a spoiler) involves Celebrindel forging a new "One Ring" - so he's not got that trump card and the Wraith is constantly compared to be in power to Sauron as well. (I'm unsure on that lore wise, since I never really "got" Simarilion - it was too abstract for me to really absorb well)
 

Sulrn

Deuces
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Technically speaking the lore probably does actually work - part of the starting storyline for Shadow of War (in the intro cutscenes so it's not really a spoiler) involves Celebrindel forging a new "One Ring" - so he's not got that trump card and the Wraith is constantly compared to be in power to Sauron as well. (I'm unsure on that lore wise, since I never really "got" Simarilion - it was too abstract for me to really absorb well)

One of the core principles of the Silmarillion even if you got nothing else out of it is the concept of their power hierachy.

Eru (God) -> Greater Ainur (Elven Pantheon, including Melkor) aka, Valar -> Lesser Ainur (including Sauron) aka, Maiar -> The Children

*Celebrimbor was one of the children. He would never be equal to Sauron (especially while dead) without the ring (having part of Sauron's power imbued) or a simaril. So the whole lore kind of works is a pretty dumb argument from the start because forging a new ring with your own power is still doing nothing but concentrating your own power into an artifact. As much as the travesty of Sauron's appearance was in SoM (as well as the poorly done boss fights in general) you should never be fighting Sauron for realsies in this game.

The moment you start treating this as anything other than a LOTR special release comic arch you're doing it wrong or admitting you're enjoying Hollywood-esque lore revisions and gender swapping.
 
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j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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eh, this is a hundred or so years before the hobbit, remember, so sauron is still pretty weak, respectively. he DOESN'T have the one ring, so he's weak from rebuilding himself and he's weak from being gimped without his ring. a HUMAN killed sauron. WITH the ring. a HOBBIT destroyed sauron. while silmarillion goes to great lengths to identify power levels, the entire point of the hobbit and lord of the rings is that power levels don't REALLY mean much when you're factoring in courage and hope
 

Sulrn

Deuces
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eh, this is a hundred or so years before the hobbit, remember, so sauron is still pretty weak, respectively. he DOESN'T have the one ring, so he's weak from rebuilding himself and he's weak from being gimped without his ring. a HUMAN killed sauron. WITH the ring. a HOBBIT destroyed sauron. while silmarillion goes to great lengths to identify power levels, the entire point of the hobbit and lord of the rings is that power levels don't REALLY mean much when you're factoring in courage and hope

Not going to get into a lore fight with you, but I'll point out your two glaring errors and leave the table.

1) Sauron never dies until the ring (his essence) is destroyed. He is defeated and his will dispersed when he initially loses his sole focus of his essence but he never dies. He's a part of Arda (Earth) as a minor aspect of nature (death) and can't die until is his essence is rejoined with it (through the destruction of the ring). It's pride that defeated him (by proxy of putting most of his will into the ring), Isildur only exposes it (depending on your interpretation, maybe not even intentionally - ie chance).
2) The Hero of the LotR, like most of Tolkiens great dramatic points, is Chance / Deus Ex Machina. Not a hobbit (unless you consider Smeagol being a river folk close enough). If you're referring to Bilbo, he fails at the end of his mission and Sam (who should have been the redeemer) also fails his master and himself. Smeagol dies, by chance falling into the pit - neither of the supposed-'heroes' take any action to force him into the pit. He quite literally slips to his own death and causes the destruction of the ring and Sauron.

You're saying apparent might doesn't matter in the face of hope and good naturedeness (because God saves) is the theme (which you're right, it is, but don't confuse that with mortals defeating Sauron).

Your argument for the game comes down to he's weakened by his dispersal and loss of his focus (ring) and hope a deus ex machina saves the day again (ie faith in God) which is directly contrary to the motives in both games. Regardless, he has enough essence (minus his ring) to gather his armies and control their will to rebuild Mordor which is supposed to retake the entire time up to the Hobbit; a status that justifies the state of the orcs/Mordor, his ability to manifest in person in SoM/SoW, and lends credence to the importance of Wraith/Talion halting his return OR he's not at full power and somewhere between his defeat and his eventual reappearance in RotK and shouldn't be in the game at all. You can't have both and say it's true to the lore, hence why you should treat it as a separate work entirely for the many other reasons the story doesn't work under serious critique.

The only active deviants during the games' time frame should be the wyrms, Balrogs, Shelob, Ring Wraiths, werewolves/vampires, and (uncontrolled) orcs/goblins/trolls/random unmentioned horrors and minor influence from Sauron.
 
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Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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You guys are talking about a universe framed by a story where one of the wisest dudes sends the most powerful artifact of all time and the key to the Great Evil's power into the center of the Great Evil's base with two of the weakest characters on the team, one of which is already dying from getting rekt by a wraith like 5 minutes in and the other is half retarded.

Compared to that, Tallion being able to defeat anything with his i-frames is gold-backed story-telling.
 
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Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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You guys are talking about a universe framed by a story where one of the wisest dudes sends the most powerful artifact of all time and the key to the Great Evil's power into the center of the Great Evil's base with two of the weakest characters on the team, one of which is already dying from getting rekt by a wraith like 5 minutes in and the other is half retarded.

Compared to that, Tallion being able to defeat anything with his i-frames is gold-backed story-telling.

Aragorn let them go by themselves, not Gandalf.

Fucktard.
 
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Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Aragorn let them go by themselves, not Gandalf.

Fucktard.
Screen-Shot-2012-12-17-at-5.45.08-PM.jpg

The treatment of Tolkein's universe in Shadow of War where you dodge-roll-defeat Sauron is perfectly in line with both the Hobbit and LotR.
 
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Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Screen-Shot-2012-12-17-at-5.45.08-PM.jpg

The treatment of Tolkein's universe in Shadow of War where you dodge-roll-defeat Sauron is perfectly in line with both the Hobbit and LotR.

Uh...were you paying attention? Gandalf TOLD them to just take the Eagles to Mt Doom right before he fell off the bridge in Moria.

FLY YOU FOOLS
 
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j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Not going to get into a lore fight with you, but I'll point out your two glaring errors and leave the table.

1) Sauron never dies until the ring (his essence) is destroyed. He is defeated and his will dispersed when he initially loses his sole focus of his essence but he never dies. He's a part of Arda (Earth) as a minor aspect of nature (death) and can't die until is his essence is rejoined with it (through the destruction of the ring). It's pride that defeated him (by proxy of putting most of his will into the ring), Isildur only exposes it (depending on your interpretation, maybe not even intentionally - ie chance).
2) The Hero of the LotR, like most of Tolkiens great dramatic points, is Chance / Deus Ex Machina. Not a hobbit (unless you consider Smeagol being a river folk close enough). If you're referring to Bilbo, he fails at the end of his mission and Sam (who should have been the redeemer) also fails his master and himself. Smeagol dies, by chance falling into the pit - neither of the supposed-'heroes' take any action to force him into the pit. He quite literally slips to his own death and causes the destruction of the ring and Sauron.

You're saying apparent might doesn't matter in the face of hope and good naturedeness (because God saves) is the theme (which you're right, it is, but don't confuse that with mortals defeating Sauron).

Your argument for the game comes down to he's weakened by his dispersal and loss of his focus (ring) and hope a deus ex machina saves the day again (ie faith in God) which is directly contrary to the motives in both games. Regardless, he has enough essence (minus his ring) to gather his armies and control their will to rebuild Mordor which is supposed to retake the entire time up to the Hobbit; a status that justifies the state of the orcs/Mordor, his ability to manifest in person in SoM/SoW, and lends credence to the importance of Wraith/Talion halting his return OR he's not at full power and somewhere between his defeat and his eventual reappearance in RotK and shouldn't be in the game at all. You can't have both and say it's true to the lore, hence why you should treat it as a separate work entirely for the many other reasons the story doesn't work under serious critique.

The only active deviants during the games' time frame should be the wyrms, Balrogs, Shelob, Ring Wraiths, werewolves/vampires, and (uncontrolled) orcs/goblins/trolls/random unmentioned horrors and minor influence from Sauron.


well whether it was by luck or design, frodo killed sauron. killed him dead. and i'll rephrase my "human killed sauron" due to semantics, and say that Isildur definitively defeated sauron.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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well whether it was by luck or design, frodo killed sauron. killed him dead. and i'll rephrase my "human killed sauron" due to semantics, and say that Isildur definitively defeated sauron.

ACKSHUALLY

Gil-galad and Elendil were the ones that defeated Sauron when the ring was taken from him. Contrary to how the movies portrayed it, Isildur did not cut the ring from Sauron's hand as an act of desperation in a lost battle, he cut the ring from Sauron's broken body after he had been beaten on the field of battle. Elendil was a pure-blooded Numenorean but it's doubtful that he really contributed much to the fight considering that Gil-galad was an immensely powerful elf of the First Age. Heroic elves of the First Age were easily on par with the Maiar, Glorfindel killed a Balrog during the sack of Gondolin and during the events of Fellowship the Nazgul fled at his mere presence. Gothmog, the greatest of the Balrogs, was slain in a duel with Ecthelion of the Fountain, also during the sack of Gondolin. For another reference for the relative power of a Balrog, seven Balrogs were able to make Ungoliant flee after she attacked Morgoth. So a group of Maiar were able to chase off a creature on par with one of the Greater Ainur, and were intent on hunting her down to kill her if Morgoth hadn't reined them in.

As for Sauron's eventual death at the end of the Third Age, it was more his own greed for power that killed him rather than the actions of Frodo or Gollum. In binding himself to the One Ring he may have radically increased his power, but he also created the mortal weakness that ultimately killed him.
 
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ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
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ACKSHUALLY

Gil-galad and Elendil were the ones that defeated Sauron when the ring was taken from him. Contrary to how the movies portrayed it, Isildur did not cut the ring from Sauron's hand as an act of desperation in a lost battle, he cut the ring from Sauron's broken body after he had been beaten on the field of battle. Elendil was a pure-blooded Numenorean but it's doubtful that he really contributed much to the fight considering that Gil-galad was an immensely powerful elf of the First Age. Heroic elves of the First Age were easily on par with the Maiar, Glorfindel killed a Balrog during the sack of Gondolin and during the events of Fellowship the Nazgul fled at his mere presence. Gothmog, the greatest of the Balrogs, was slain in a duel with Ecthelion of the Fountain, also during the sack of Gondolin. For another reference for the relative power of a Balrog, seven Balrogs were able to make Ungoliant flee after she attacked Morgoth. So a group of Maiar were able to chase off a creature on par with one of the Greater Ainur, and were intent on hunting her down to kill her if Morgoth hadn't reined them in.

As for Sauron's eventual death at the end of the Third Age, it was more his own greed for power that killed him rather than the actions of Frodo or Gollum. In binding himself to the One Ring he may have radically increased his power, but he also created the mortal weakness that ultimately killed him.
NERD
 
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j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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ACKSHUALLY

Gil-galad and Elendil were the ones that defeated Sauron when the ring was taken from him. Contrary to how the movies portrayed it, Isildur did not cut the ring from Sauron's hand as an act of desperation in a lost battle, he cut the ring from Sauron's broken body after he had been beaten on the field of battle. Elendil was a pure-blooded Numenorean but it's doubtful that he really contributed much to the fight considering that Gil-galad was an immensely powerful elf of the First Age. Heroic elves of the First Age were easily on par with the Maiar, Glorfindel killed a Balrog during the sack of Gondolin and during the events of Fellowship the Nazgul fled at his mere presence. Gothmog, the greatest of the Balrogs, was slain in a duel with Ecthelion of the Fountain, also during the sack of Gondolin. For another reference for the relative power of a Balrog, seven Balrogs were able to make Ungoliant flee after she attacked Morgoth. So a group of Maiar were able to chase off a creature on par with one of the Greater Ainur, and were intent on hunting her down to kill her if Morgoth hadn't reined them in.

As for Sauron's eventual death at the end of the Third Age, it was more his own greed for power that killed him rather than the actions of Frodo or Gollum. In binding himself to the One Ring he may have radically increased his power, but he also created the mortal weakness that ultimately killed him.

"This I will have as weregild for my father's death, and my brother's. Was it not I that dealt the enemy his death blow?" -Isildur

so... uh... from the silmirallion, Isildur seems to think he didn't cut off the finger of a comatose Sauron... granted, sure, it COULD be argued that OF COURSE he says he defeated sauron... but no where else in any canonical source is this claim refuted.

i mean, unless you're point was just that isildur wasn't alone, and that he had some pretty beefy help. in which case, yeah he definitely did. but gil-galad didn't cut off the ring. elendil didn't cut off the ring. the weakest one of those 3 did.
 

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
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Different type of game, but I'll leave this here. Patent to change matchmaking where the person is more likely to buy an item thru microtransaction and then be put into matches where item will be more effective to make them feel good about purchase.