Mikhail and Hodj's Political Thread
- Thread starter Araysar
- Start date
- Status
Except after the subsidies it's $0/month. Your whole claim was that the tax subsidies wouldn't cover the cost of insurance and that families who wouldn't be able to afford it (without the subsidy) would be punished on the other side by a fine. Now that your retarded claim has been completely demolished by showing the wholly insufficient way that you were reading your "source" (i.e. only as far as it took to indulge you in your moronic confirmation bias) you're shifting the goal posts. I know it's difficult being so wrong all the time, but you should try just a LITTLE bit of honesty.
Except that the actual comparison there is against what their current insurance would pay. Given that someone with that big a family making that little probably wouldn't have any health insurance at all right now, the BEST we'd be talking about is some crazy high deductible plan with the same sort of premiums. This isn't an argument against Obamacare. The argument you're making now is against a private health insurance scheme. If you want single payer, you're gonna have to stop voting for Republicans.
lol
Are you kidding me? Scanning it quickly? That's literally ALL you did. The way that I embarrassed you was by doing more reading than you. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
And go without insurance coverage the entire year? Basically exploit a retarded loophole you just pulled out of your ass to avoid having to actually be responsible for your medical coverage, aka the whole point of the fucking bill? Why not just pay the fine at that point, since its a quarter of what the cost would be?
Mikhail undermining his own position because he can't stand to be proven wrong. You saw it here first folks.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
Uh, no, its not. Reread it, you mouth breathing baboon.
Its the Bronze plan's coverage and out of pocket costs versus the Silver plans coverage and out of pocket costs.
To requote for the retard who forgot how to read
BRONZE PLAN
The premium and subsidy amounts above are based on a Silver plan. You have the option to apply the subsidy toward the purchase of other levels of coverage, such as a Gold plan (which would be more comprehensive) or a Bronze plan (which would be less comprehensive).
For example, you could enroll in a Bronze plan for about $0 per year (which is 0% of your household income). By enrolling in a Bronze plan, you would receive $6,871 in subsidies, which would cover the entire amount of your Bronze premium. For most people, the Bronze plan represents the minimum level of coverage required under health reform. Although you would pay less in premiums by enrolling in a Bronze plan, you will face higher out-of-pocket costs than if you enrolled in a Silver plan.
OUT OF POCKET COSTS
Your out-of-pocket maximum for a Silver plan (not including the premium) can be no more than $4,500. Whether you reach this maximum level will depend on the amount of health care services you use. Currently, about one in four people use no health care services in any given year.
You are guaranteed access to a Silver plan with an actuarial value of 94%. This means that for all enrollees in a typical population, the plan will pay for 94% of expenses in total for covered benefits, with enrollees responsible for the rest. If you choose to enroll in a Bronze plan, the actuarial value will be 60%, meaning your out-of-pocket costs when you use services will likely be higher. Regardless of which level of coverage you choose, deductibles and copayments will vary from plan to plan, and out-of-pocket costs will depend on your health care expenses. Preventive services will be covered with no cost sharing required.
This is NOT a comparison between their old insurance and their new. This is a comparison between choosing to buy the Bronze plan over the Silver plan.
The "problem" you've identified (for these magical unicorn families of 4 that were EVER able to survive on $35,000 that also can't get Medicaid) only exists for the first year. After that, they get the subsidy and can use it to buy insurance for the next year.
So that way they can pay for the next year's insurance? Are you seriously so fucking retarded you're not following this?
How does that undermine my position. I'm pointing that out as an option for a group of people who make up approximately 0% of the US population.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
They aren't going to have it now, and they won't have it then. Instead what they will do is choose to pay the fine, and have 2089 dollars lopped off their EITC and then if they go to the hospital they get to pay all the expenses straight out of pocket with no government help at all.
You literally don't know what you're talking about. This is all news to you. That's how fucking uninformed you are.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
No retard. You're not following. If the costs of the bronze plan under the conditions where people get sick are an indictment of Obamacare, then that must mean that the costs are higher than they would be prior to Obamacare, right? Except that's obviously not fucking true. Come on, put 2 and 2 together. You can do it.
Its the Bronze plan's coverage and out of pocket costs versus the Silver plans coverage and out of pocket costs.
To requote for the retard who forgot how to read
BRONZE PLAN
The premium and subsidy amounts above are based on a Silver plan. You have the option to apply the subsidy toward the purchase of other levels of coverage, such as a Gold plan (which would be more comprehensive) or a Bronze plan (which would be less comprehensive).
For example, you could enroll in a Bronze plan for about $0 per year (which is 0% of your household income). By enrolling in a Bronze plan, you would receive $6,871 in subsidies, which would cover the entire amount of your Bronze premium. For most people, the Bronze plan represents the minimum level of coverage required under health reform. Although you would pay less in premiums by enrolling in a Bronze plan, you will face higher out-of-pocket costs than if you enrolled in a Silver plan.
OUT OF POCKET COSTS
Your out-of-pocket maximum for a Silver plan (not including the premium) can be no more than $4,500. Whether you reach this maximum level will depend on the amount of health care services you use. Currently, about one in four people use no health care services in any given year.
You are guaranteed access to a Silver plan with an actuarial value of 94%. This means that for all enrollees in a typical population, the plan will pay for 94% of expenses in total for covered benefits, with enrollees responsible for the rest. If you choose to enroll in a Bronze plan, the actuarial value will be 60%, meaning your out-of-pocket costs when you use services will likely be higher. Regardless of which level of coverage you choose, deductibles and copayments will vary from plan to plan, and out-of-pocket costs will depend on your health care expenses. Preventive services will be covered with no cost sharing required.
This is NOT a comparison between their old insurance and their new. This is a comparison between choosing to buy the Bronze plan over the Silver plan.[/QUOTE]
No retard. You're not following. If the costs of the bronze plan under the conditions where people get sick are an indictment of Obamacare, then that must mean that the costs are higher than they would be prior to Obamacare, right? Except that's obviously not fucking true. Come on, put 2 and 2 together. You can do it.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
Can't get medicaid in states that didn't expand coverage. Can't get any subsidies or help if your employer offers any type of coverage at all.
Go to the subsidy link above and change only the tab that says "Is employer coverage available?" to Yes
Like I said, you're literally just talking about of your ass at this point. Mikhail, I know it hurts you to wait all this time, come back and try to talk shit, only to get your shit shoved in again, but maybe, just maybe, its time for you to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself "Why am I so retarded?"
Are they are as retarded as you are? Then yeah, maybe they would shoot themselves in the foot like that.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
Strawman. No one said its an indictment of Obamacare. No one is saying Obamacare wasn't a better situation than what existed before.
What was said is that these pricing structures won't last to implementation.
Lrn2read. Lrn2notbeakneejerkbutthurtretard.
khalid
Unelected Mod
- 14,071
- 6,775
Great posts Hodj. To anyone with sense, its just simply impossible for someone to pay that kind of money and get "paid back". Poor families don't have elastic incomes like that. The only option for these poor families is to pay the fine, which means they will be WORSE off than they were before.
Oh really? No one at all can get Medicaid if it wasn't expanded in shithole Republican states?
Take a guess as to why. I dare you, dipshit.
lol
You're so mad. Look I'm sorry that I showed everyone how you don't actually read your "sources." I mean I'm not sorry because you're an idiot. But you know...I do kind of feel bad for you.
That's the entire premise of your argument. You can pretend that it isn't all day but it's super obvious that that's not true.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
- 31,672
- 18,377
Strawman again.
Mikhail is really just incredibly angsty this morning I see.
At this point, all he's left with is putting words into others mouths to try and salvage what an embarassing lack of understanding he has about the basic financials of this situation.
- Status