Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Hekotat

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
12,942
13,124
moonarchia said:
Paying a sub for a finished product is a far different thing than paying one to beta test something that will never be finished. Oh well, if the masochistic misery whales want to be milked, someone will milk them.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you, this is the first time in more than a decade I've been willing to pay for a subscription on an EA title (Or at all really). These guys aren't out to swindle you and you can tell from their streams. This is a passion project that I am personally inspired by, and I have not been inspired by anything in this cruel shitty world in so long that it really struck a nerve when it happened. We've all been swindled by what gaming has become but this one feels different, it feels honest and I'm willing to help them bring joy back to my world. I need hope brother, I can't keep going on like this.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,323
6,786
Flobee said:
Thats the point I'm making. You have a preference and at least seemingly can't imagine anyone having a different one. I'll use maps too most likely, but designing without them very much has a purpose. In recent history design has largely been about controlling player behavior. This kind of decision is specifically a return to a different philosophy of designing for a specific experience and not making top priority that everyone experience it in the same way. You may dislike it which is fine, but its not retarded its just a different philosophy than you've seen in recent years.

Maybe players will hate it, I tend to think its going to work just fine. Will just have to see.
Click to expand...

This is not about a 'preference' or if i 'like it' or 'don't like it'. I could not care less about such lame ass concepts.

These choices are encouraging 95% of the player base to run a second screen for more tools than is necessary. How does that make the 'vibes' better on the whole? How does it increase 'immersion' for the majority? How does this make the game world feel better, if it encourages players to detach from that game world more frequently?
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,323
6,786
Hekotat said:
While I agree with you, this is the first time in more than a decade I've been willing to pay for a subscription on an EA title (Or at all really). These guys aren't out to swindle you and you can tell from their streams. This is a passion project that I am personally inspired by, and I have not been inspired by anything in this cruel shitty world in so long that it really struck a nerve when it happened. We've all been swindled by what gaming has become but this one feels different, it feels honest and I'm willing to help them bring joy back to my world. I need hope brother, I can't keep going on like this.
Click to expand...

Anyone criticizing the $15 sub fee for this game, even in its current state, is a broke-ass hater.

Change my mind.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions: 3 users
moonarchia

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
<Bronze Donator>
28,589
55,040
Hekotat said:
While I agree with you, this is the first time in more than a decade I've been willing to pay for a subscription on an EA title (Or at all really). These guys aren't out to swindle you and you can tell from their streams. This is a passion project that I am personally inspired by, and I have not been inspired by anything in this cruel shitty world in so long that it really struck a nerve when it happened. We've all been swindled by what gaming has become but this one feels different, it feels honest and I'm willing to help them bring joy back to my world. I need hope brother, I can't keep going on like this.
Click to expand...
I fell for that shit last year with Pantheon. It happens. If the devs had any inclination to stop being assholes and implement actual QOL instead of continual kicking of the players in the dick I might give it a shot too. Forcing soft PVP by refusing to make instances is a hard pass.
 
Flobee

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,095
3,601
Quaid said:
This is not about a 'preference' or if i 'like it' or 'don't like it'. I could not care less about such lame ass concepts.

These choices are encouraging 95% of the player base to run a second screen for more tools than is necessary. How does that make the 'vibes' better on the whole? How does it increase 'immersion' for the majority? How does this make the game world feel better, if it encourages players to detach from that game world more frequently?
Click to expand...
Because when you're designing something you're trying to create a specific experience. When doing this you're taking into account the tools the player has available when interacting with that experience. Thus the tools available matter dramatically to the end result. I don't know how to explain it more clearly than that. Its a thought process you're going to engage in when designing any sort of experience for another person, regardless of format.

How a player chooses to engage with that content is irrelevant because the factors involved during the design determine the outcome, not player choice. A simple example is zone layout. If I'm designing for a map or minimap then I need to consider how its going to be mapped for the player and that will constrain my design. Because I have to CARE about the map because its a feature in the game. Expand that concept to other areas and you'll start seeing what I'm trying to say.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,323
6,786
Flobee said:
Because when you're designing something you're trying to create a specific experience. When doing this you're taking into account the tools the player has available when interacting with that experience. Thus the tools available matter dramatically to the end result. I don't know how to explain it more clearly than that. Its a thought process you're going to engage in when designing any sort of experience for another person, regardless of format.

How a player chooses to engage with that content is irrelevant because the factors involved during the design determine the outcome, not player choice. A simple example is zone layout. If I'm designing for a map or minimap then I need to consider how its going to be mapped for the player and that will constrain my design. Because I have to CARE about the map because its a feature in the game. Expand that concept to other areas and you'll start seeing what I'm trying to say.
Click to expand...

They are going to engage with certain systems (global chat, auction house, maps, item databases) whether you include them or not. This is what I'm saying. Why on Earth would a rational person relinquish creative control of those tools and encourage their players to engage with DraftKings or Ozempic ads while playing their game? The goal should be encouraging players to utilize the (limited?) tools you choose to give them rather than have them literally exit your game world.
 
Last edited:
Flobee

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,095
3,601
Quaid said:
They are going to engage with certain systems (global chat, auction house, maps, item databases) whether you include them or not. This is what I'm saying. Why on Earth would a rational person relinquish creative control of those tools and encourage their players to engage with DraftKings or Pfizer ads while playing their game? The goal should be encouraging players to utilize the (limited?) tools you choose to give them rather than have them literally exit your game world.
Click to expand...
Control is the key to what you're saying.

The entire point is not trying to control the player and what they're doing. A game designers job is to... design the game, not control player attention. If a player decides to alter the experience then that is their choice. I know this is wildly different than the experience of 99% of modern games... but that's exactly the point. If the game is well designed within the constraints set by the game itself its going to be enjoyable, or that's the idea anyhow. Whether or not the player is guzzling energy drinks and spam refreshing a third party auction house is irrelevant to that.

We're so used to media telling us how and what to think the idea of something being designed specifically to avoid that is 'irrational'. Lol. Granted I'm putting this intention on the devs I don't think I've heard this explicitly stated its just my interpretation from decisions and something that I've thought about a lot for personal projects.
 
Hekotat

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
12,942
13,124
moonarchia said:
I fell for that shit last year with Pantheon. It happens. If the devs had any inclination to stop being assholes and implement actual QOL instead of continual kicking of the players in the dick I might give it a shot too. Forcing soft PVP by refusing to make instances is a hard pass.
Click to expand...

I get you man, both Kickstarters I backed bombed hard as well as watching every IP I love turn to ash in my mouth. However, it's 15 dollars a month, that is an insane amount of value for what this is and you don't have to keep it going if you don't want to. That's just barely more than a pound of Hamburger meat for almost endless entertainment for awhile, good entertainment to boot. The music in this game is so soothing and the world feels so immersive it just melts the stress away. If that's not worth 15 dollars I don't know what is.


EDIT: Math is hard.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
moonarchia

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
<Bronze Donator>
28,589
55,040
Hekotat said:
I get you man, both Kickstarters I backed bombed hard as well as watching every IP I love turn to ash in my mouth. However, it's 15 dollars a month, that is an insane amount of value for what this is and you don't have to keep it going if you don't want to. That's just barely more than a pound of Hamburger meat for almost endless entertainment for awhile, good entertainment to boot. The music in this game is so soothing and the world feels so immersive it just melts the stress away. If that's not worth 15 dollars I don't know what is.


EDIT: Math is hard.
Click to expand...
It's not about money. It's about not supporting shitty devs. Like I said, lack of instancing is a hard pass. That was a lesson I was reminded of with Pantheon. People declaring camps and hoarding spawns is something I will not tolerate or be a part of.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,323
6,786
Flobee said:
Control is the key to what you're saying.

The entire point is not trying to control the player and what they're doing. A game designers job is to... design the game, not control player attention. If a player decides to alter the experience then that is their choice. I know this is wildly different than the experience of 99% of modern games... but that's exactly the point. If the game is well designed within the constraints set by the game itself its going to be enjoyable, or that's the idea anyhow. Whether or not the player is guzzling energy drinks and spam refreshing a third party auction house is irrelevant to that.

We're so used to media telling us how and what to think the idea of something being designed specifically to avoid that is 'irrational'. Lol. Granted I'm putting this intention on the devs I don't think I've heard this explicitly stated its just my interpretation from decisions and something that I've thought about a lot for personal projects.
Click to expand...

So your position is that the developers are intentionally making decisions that encourage players to frequently disengage from their game world, while building a game experience that focuses on immersion, risk calculation, strategy, planning, and knowledge?
 
Flobee

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,095
3,601
Quaid said:
So your position is that the developers are intentionally making decisions that encourage players to frequently disengage from their game world, while building a game experience that focuses on immersion, risk calculation, strategy, planning, and knowledge?
Click to expand...
No. I don't think I can make my point any clearer. You either understand it or you don't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.