Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Furry

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third person was so weird in eq at first. I used to pop to it to target stuff and other reasons, but the vast majority of my play was first person… at least until they added that mouse wheel stuff. I thought it was earlier than GoD
 
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Sylas

Sylas

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I only ever played vanilla through Luclin, dabbled about 10minutes with pop but didn't do anything, and I don't remember mouse wheel zooming out to be a thing. I wouldn't bet anything on that though it was a long time ago.

I also never played Everquest again after 2001 until a few months last year when THJ came out, so no i'm not confusing anything with P99 or quarm or any other emu over the fucking decades.

F9 3rd person was perfectly fine in OG everquest and everyone used it after guk. I literally can't think of a single dungeon kunark or beyond that didn't have the 500 foot tall ceilings specifically because people complained about not being able to use 3rd person in guk/solb in vanilla.

on my rogue as a melee I stuck mostly to first person unless I was on corpse recovery duty but as an enchanter I was 100% 3rd person at all times and I started him up in Kunark and played through all dungeon content/epic through kunark and velious. I had a wee little necro alt i played a bit in vanilla and used 3rd person on him as well but that was just kiting in outdoor zones like oasis/sro and he never made it past the 20s
 
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Furry

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Sylas said:
I only ever played vanilla through Luclin, dabbled about 10minutes with pop but didn't do anything, and I don't remember mouse wheel zooming out to be a thing. I wouldn't bet anything on that though it was a long time ago.

I also never played Everquest again after 2001 until a few months last year when THJ came out, so no i'm not confusing anything with P99 or quarm or any other emu over the fucking decades.

F9 3rd person was perfectly fine in OG everquest and everyone used it after guk. I literally can't think of a single dungeon kunark or beyond that didn't have the 500 foot tall ceilings specifically because people complained about not being able to use 3rd person in guk/solb in vanilla.

on my rogue as a melee I stuck mostly to first person unless I was on corpse recovery duty but as an enchanter I was 100% 3rd person at all times and I started him up in Kunark and played through all dungeon content/epic through kunark and velious. I had a wee little necro alt i played a bit in vanilla and used 3rd person on him as well but that was just kiting in outdoor zones like oasis/sro and he never made it past the 20s
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The thing I remember most about third person is id do it on long runs, and that any time you went into the water you’d have to use the stupid page up and down keys to change which way your character was looking.
 
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your_mum

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i cant remember when proper mouse wheel zoom came to EQ, but it was not PoP era nor before. pretty easy to confirm that since eqmac's PC client (which contains LDON files) cannot mouse wheel.

i 100% doubt anyone actually used the real f9x2+zoom-out 3rd person cam more than a few times to target shit... its so fuken janky
 
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Kithani

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Sylas said:
F9 3rd person was perfectly fine in OG everquest and everyone used it after guk. I literally can't think of a single dungeon kunark or beyond that didn't have the 500 foot tall ceilings specifically because people complained about not being able to use 3rd person in guk/solb in vanilla.
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Look you may have very well played that way but I do honestly think you would have been a small minority. There’s no way to really prove that to you I guess but for evidence I would point out that we only really have one “modern” server that uses an old client with the janky f9 camera and that is TAKP.







The vast majority of the time people spend in first person mode especially during exploration and running around in Sebilis on that server.
 
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Quaid

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Kithani said:
Look you may have very well played that way but I do honestly think you would have been a small minority. There’s no way to really prove that to you I guess but for evidence I would point out that we only really have one “modern” server that uses an old client with the janky f9 camera and that is TAKP.







The vast majority of the time people spend in first person mode especially during exploration and running around in Sebilis on that server.
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I used the awful third person view situationally if i was quadding, or healing a group where folks had charmed pets, or if the tank was dogshit. Otherwise i didn’t punish myself with it.
 
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Nirgon

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Quaid said:
I used the awful third person view situationally if i was quadding, or healing a group where folks had charmed pets, or if the tank was dogshit. Otherwise i didn’t punish myself with it.
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Quaid quadding, you love to see it
 
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your_mum

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its so weird too because all they had to do was make the f9x2 camera lock on z-axis and it woulda been almost same as mouse wheel zoom... you can tell by the devs not doing that simple fix to f9x2 cam, they themselves didn't realize their playerbase uses it (or what was really the case; there was no one really using it). but that all changed when WoW came, thats basically when EQ got mouse wheel zoom.
 
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Rael

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Sylas said:
except everquest literally had 3rd person camera so wtf are you talking about?

Default was 1st person in a tiny window with massive grey UI surrounding it but you could flip through views to full screen and then full screen 3rd person.

you only stayed in first person when you were in some safe ass camp waiting on respawns clearing shit, shooting the shit with people. any time you needed any kind of situational awareness you went into 3rd person view.

starting to think some of you motherfuckers never played everquest you just romanticized some idea of it from old stories off the internet
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The F9 Cameras were janky as fuck and most people never used them.
 
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Sylas

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weird all you guys coming out the wood work claiming nobody ever used them yet can't explain why every single zone and dungeon design from Kunark and later was completely redesigned specifically because everyone was using it?

I don't remember it being janky at all at the time (compared to mousewheel zoom sure? but remember we were coming from 3rd person isometric perspective in most RPGs over the shoulder 3rd person camera centered on you was amazing)
 
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moonarchia

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Sylas said:
weird all you guys coming out the wood work claiming nobody ever used them yet can't explain why every single zone and dungeon design from Kunark and later was completely redesigned specifically because everyone was using it?

I don't remember it being janky at all at the time (compared to mousewheel zoom sure? but remember we were coming from 3rd person isometric perspective in most RPGs over the shoulder 3rd person camera centered on you was amazing)
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In the original client with the forced tiny window with giant UI all around it I was first person always. When it went full screen I found 3rd person a lot better.
 
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Quaid

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Sylas said:
weird all you guys coming out the wood work claiming nobody ever used them yet can't explain why every single zone and dungeon design from Kunark and later was completely redesigned specifically because everyone was using it?

I don't remember it being janky at all at the time (compared to mousewheel zoom sure? but remember we were coming from 3rd person isometric perspective in most RPGs over the shoulder 3rd person camera centered on you was amazing)
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What?

Karnor’s Castle best camps were in tiny halls… same with Howling Stones and Sebilis? Droga? Chardock? All small hallway style.

Crystal Caverns? Dragon Necropolis rats? Velketor basement dogs? Siren’s Grotto?

What the fuck are you talking about? You think something being true 50% of the time proves your assumption?
 
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Sylas

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Quaid said:
What?

Karnor’s Castle best camps were in tiny halls… same with Howling Stones and Sebilis? Droga? Chardock? All small hallway style.

Crystal Caverns? Dragon Necropolis rats? Velketor basement dogs? Siren’s Grotto?

What the fuck are you talking about? You think something being true 50% of the time proves your assumption?
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Wrong on literally every single example you quoted.

LGUK, literally 8 foot? ceiling. ogre character models almost hit their head here (and in many instances in various dungeons had to duck to fit through openings):
1755880037927.png


Vs every dungeon after it:
Sebilis
1755880079794.png

Howling Stones:
1755880310345.png

Karnor's Castle:
1755880148381.png

Dragon necropolis:
1755880203619.png

Siren's Grotto:
1755880386891.png


I can keep going, some of these dungeons have very limited screen shots on google, I promise i'm not being selective here. Also, purely by coincidence since there's not really that many screenshots online, but the one picture of a dungeon with someone actually in combat they happen to be playing in 3rd person, hrm?

Almost all these dungeons are either outdoors or have 500 foot tall vaunted ceilings. Every single level/zone/dungeon got changed to support 3rd person view, which is how competent players who did more than just sat in an already cleared camp staring at a spell book, played the game. Sorry y'all were scrubs. I'm guessing you spent the first 6 months playing the game in this view huh:

1755880544081.png
 
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forehead

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This may just be a gayest debate topic yet in this thread.
Good news though. MnM camera works regardless of your preference so future generations won’t have to post screenshots with ceiling measurements to prove a point.
 
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Quaid

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Sylas said:
Wrong on literally every single example you quoted.

LGUK, literally 8 foot? ceiling. ogre character models almost hit their head here (and in many instances in various dungeons had to duck to fit through openings):
View attachment 598969

Vs every dungeon after it:
Sebilis
View attachment 598970
Howling Stones:
View attachment 598974
Karnor's Castle:
View attachment 598971
Dragon necropolis:
View attachment 598973
Siren's Grotto:
View attachment 598975

I can keep going, some of these dungeons have very limited screen shots on google, I promise i'm not being selective here. Also, purely by coincidence since there's not really that many screenshots online, but the one picture of a dungeon with someone actually in combat they happen to be playing in 3rd person, hrm?

Almost all these dungeons are either outdoors or have 500 foot tall vaunted ceilings. Every single level/zone/dungeon got changed to support 3rd person view, which is how competent players who did more than just sat in an already cleared camp staring at a spell book, played the game. Sorry y'all were scrubs. I'm guessing you spent the first 6 months playing the game in this view huh:

View attachment 598976
Click to expand...

You are ABSOLUTELY being selective. I have been in all of these zones in the last two weeks. ALL OF THEM have significant areas as tight as Vanilla dungeons. Yes, they all have areas where the roof level is high, but so do Vanilla dungeons. The castle area in Solb, the bear pits in Permafrost, the courtyard and temples in Cazic Thule, the maze in Unrest. Dungeons throughout classic are a vast mix of ceiling heights and you are cherry picking areas in zones that conform to your assertions.
 
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Araxen

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Sylas said:
Wrong on literally every single example you quoted.

LGUK, literally 8 foot? ceiling. ogre character models almost hit their head here (and in many instances in various dungeons had to duck to fit through openings):
View attachment 598969

Vs every dungeon after it:
Sebilis
View attachment 598970
Howling Stones:
View attachment 598974
Karnor's Castle:
View attachment 598971
Dragon necropolis:
View attachment 598973
Siren's Grotto:
View attachment 598975

I can keep going, some of these dungeons have very limited screen shots on google, I promise i'm not being selective here. Also, purely by coincidence since there's not really that many screenshots online, but the one picture of a dungeon with someone actually in combat they happen to be playing in 3rd person, hrm?

Almost all these dungeons are either outdoors or have 500 foot tall vaunted ceilings. Every single level/zone/dungeon got changed to support 3rd person view, which is how competent players who did more than just sat in an already cleared camp staring at a spell book, played the game. Sorry y'all were scrubs. I'm guessing you spent the first 6 months playing the game in this view huh:

View attachment 598976
Click to expand...

Pure Autism.
 
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Kithani

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I heard there was entire Coheed album about how Sylas played in 3rd person and they had to redesign the game around his uber strats
 
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Sylas

Sylas

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Quaid said:
You are ABSOLUTELY being selective. I have been in all of these zones in the last two weeks. ALL OF THEM have significant areas as tight as Vanilla dungeons. Yes, they all have areas where the roof level is high, but so do Vanilla dungeons. The castle area in Solb, the bear pits in Permafrost, the courtyard and temples in Cazic Thule, the maze in Unrest. Dungeons throughout classic are a vast mix of ceiling heights and you are cherry picking areas in zones that conform to your assertions.

There are areas of LGuk with 25ft ceilings too. Scryer room, Spider bridge, Fungus area etc
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Nah you just got dunked on, its ok.

Feel free to google the names of these zones and let me know how many pictures you find, heres a hint, i used the first (and often only) screenshot on the internet. Don't kid yourself that this 25 year old archaic ass obscure game is important enough for anyone to give a shit about, certainly not enough for any one to cherry pick shit.

You are demonstrably wrong, accept it and move on. the vast majority of guk and sol b had 8 foot ceilings, and everyone bitched, and then every single dungeon after that was designed with huge ceilings for the vast majority of their layouts.

Keep in mind this argument sprang up because some retard stated eq had forced first person only and carebear games like wow ruined the genre by introducing 3rd person camera views. He also said something about how immersive 4 hour boat rides are gonna be in this game. Enjoy being as wrong as him.
 
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Kithani

Kithani

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Sylas said:
Keep in mind this argument sprang up because some retard stated eq had forced first person only and carebear games like wow ruined the genre by introducing 3rd person camera views. He also said something about how immersive 4 hour boat rides are gonna be in this game. Enjoy being as wrong as him.
Click to expand...
I am the dude that said first person was important to the game’s “magic” and I absolutely despise 4 hour boat rides buddybear.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Kithani said:
I am the dude that said first person was important to the game’s “magic” and I absolutely despise 4 hour boat rides buddybear.
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Oh so this is your alt then?
Locnar said:
Forced first person increases immersion, makes you be more situationally aware, gives ambient noise an ACTUAL in game purpose, allows for spells/items to help out with increasing awareness (like the old enchanter Sentinel spell..), foster team play as some must keep look out while others mediate in a book, etc.

Its another mechanism to help separate the superior player from the shitty/lazy ones and is needed.

p.s. I played for years on EQmac and then later TAKP, both because EQlive fell victim to "busy dads" and lost all its cool hard coreness.
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