Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Kirun

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moonarchia said:
Yup. That's why I was showing the Pantheon data. They are looking to cash in on the same niche, and they had a huge EA splash, and 3 months later they were tanking, and now 10 months later are seeing daily highs at <10% of what they had during the rush. MnM with their sub for beta are going to fall off harder and faster.
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Yeah, Pantheon already wrote the cautionary tale in real time. Massive boomer hype, huge early-access turnout, and then a nosedive the second people realized nostalgia wasn't enough to cover for tedious, half-baked design. MnM's marching straight into the same trap, only they're charging admission at the door.

A sub-for-beta model in 2025 is practically begging for a mass exodus. You'll get your day-one crowd, though. The same "old-school MMO" faithful who think forced downtime equals "immersive gameplay". And then they'll watch the lights dim once they remember why nobody's made games like this in twenty years.

Pantheon collapsed because it believed its own mythology. MnM looks dead-set on doing the same, except this time with a cover charge and a round of applause from the exact crowd that'll quit first.

MMOs are becoming the equivalent of "sequels" and "remakes" in Hollywood. Boring, tired design just trying to cash in on one last "memberberries" from the 35+ crowd.
 
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Nirgon

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MnM can do a well done classic style rendition while applying hindsight and not creating a WoW clone. I believe.
 
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Quaid

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I hope they’re right about their no Steam strategy. Not seeing player base growth the last few tests.
 
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Kithani

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Nirgon said:
I believe.
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Arrested Development Tobias GIF
 
Kithani

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Del said:
Success to them would probably be any sort of profit, which wouldn't be too hard to achieve considering their development costs have been near zero.

Success to me would be something like an average of 5-10k subs for the first year so that they could get some of the guys working on it paid enough to start working full time and churn out development more quickly.
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I think it’d be pretty easy to claim success if their definition is “we made at least $1” and I think deep down they are probably not really shooting for that even if it’s what they claim on stream

I’d be pretty surprised if this game averaged 5-10k subs over the first year, unless they stray a bit from the “people on welfare or dead end jobs cockblock others for their own amusement” endgame.
 
Burns

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Kithani said:
I’d be pretty surprised if this game averaged 5-10k subs over the first year, unless they stray a bit from the “people on welfare or dead end jobs cockblock others for their own amusement” endgame.
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I'm interested to hear how, if they can enforce it well enough, a no-box server combats the multi-box sociopaths that take pleasure from that or if there are enough of them that it wont matter as they will just form a huge guild to do it.
 
Pasteton

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you guys vastly underestimate the number of nirgons and I guess, me type of gamers are out there. Between the contrarian incels and semi retired boomers I’d easily bet this gets 15k subs by end of year 1, at a minimum. And I would also bet the number grows during that year.

the most offensive thing you could do to nick is compare this game to pantheon. That garbage only had the numbers it did due to Brad and also being in the mmo news cycle for decade+ and cuz steam.

While pantheon had xp loss, slow travel and slow xp, the similarities truly end there. Their content hit a brick wall by level 30, and they did hardly anything to address this for over 6 months. Their lead Joppa is a fucking moron who openly admits he has adhd and no prior game dev experience. I played that game for as long as I did (I somehow got into the 40s) mostly out of hope that they would add something, anything, worthwhile to do as I was so desperate for a hardcore , oldschool game. I play mnm because there’s so much at lvl 56 I have barely even touched
 
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Quaid

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Pasteton said:
I play mnm because there’s so much at lvl 56 I have barely even touched
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I have no experience with this, but could you please elaborate because I keep hearing this and I don't understand. By my count there are 16ish zones in various states of completion which includes 2 major dungeons, 3 mini dungeons, and 2 cities, one of which is barely populated. Is there some robust quest system or something? How have you gotten to level 56 without seeing huge swathes of the available game world? I had significantly traversed and experienced 4 zones by the time I was level 12.
 
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Pasteton

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Hell the starting city has level ranges to xp on from 1-50 and it’s all itemized , and there’s lots of hidden secrets and quests that I cannot talk about on forums of course. I’d say I spent easily 4-5 days /played just doing all the shit in the city.

I think the bends area is well explored in open so I think it’s on to talk about quests there. just as an example there are multiple names in that area that can be a challenge to get to at the right level, and also a really good quest that can take a while to complete that gives you a clicky neck (I think it’s sense magic but might be see invis, both are useful).

now just take that and imagine every zone having that amount of content and you begin to get the picture.

my leveling path was night harbor - Telekir - fallen pass - vale of zintar - keepers bight - back to fallen pass new area - back to keepers bight new area - glass flats - back to fallen pass yet another new area - back to night harbor for a really challenging area that is a large dungeon just hiding in the city - back to glass flats different area- back to fallen pass whole ‘nother area. A lot of the leveling didn’t feel so much like leveling as much as it did trying to get certain items to drop. I personally enjoy that, others may not.

anyways, what I completely missed because there’s simply too many options - now keep in mind; in many cases it’s still worth going to do these things for gear /quests but I am above the level at this point-

- worms bane - entire fucking dungeon that I outleveled and missed
- ancient crypt - same again
- most mob camps in keepers and vale (including the massive orc area)
- literal entire zone of shallowed shoals
- literal entire zone of grim tide sanctum
- literal entire zone of Scarwood (while more feature complete than almost any pantheon zone, this is relatively incomplete by mnm standards)
- barely touched Everglade Weald
- barely touched sungreet strand, including skipping the quarry area
- barely touched most of Telekir, including goblin area
- skipped bandit caves in glass flats, and most of the undead area but will go back to that for sure
- barely touched hidden ‘grain cellar ‘ dungeon

I could keep going but its hard to even remember everything I missed and need to go recheck
 
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Kirun

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Pasteton said:
you guys vastly underestimate the number of nirgons and I guess, me type of gamers are out there. Between the contrarian incels and semi retired boomers I’d easily bet this gets 15k subs by end of year 1, at a minimum. And I would also bet the number grows during that year.
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Right, because nothing screams "thriving MMO" like catering to a mix of contrarian shut-ins and dudes waiting for their next disability check to clear.

Not launching on Steam is a gift for them. It means they can spin whatever narrative they want about "strong player numbers" without anyone being able to verify it. No concurrent player graphs, no retention stats, no SteamCharts to point at when the population inevitably nosedives. Just vibes, anecdotes, and nostalgia doing the heavy lifting. When your playerbase starts collapsing, you just say it’s "tight-knit" now. Problem solved.

This game will be a retirement home for people who peaked at level 60 in 2001. I can't imagine it lasts more than 1-2 months before people realize there just isn't a market for EQ Redux in 2025.
Burns said:
I'm interested to hear how, if they can enforce it well enough, a no-box server combats the multi-box sociopaths that take pleasure from that or if there are enough of them that it wont matter as they will just form a huge guild to do it.
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I imagine their "no-box" tech will work about as well as DBG's :rolleyes: .
 
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Quaid

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Pasteton said:
Hell the starting city has level ranges to xp on from 1-50 and it’s all itemized , and there’s lots of hidden secrets and quests that I cannot talk about on forums of course. I’d say I spent easily 4-5 days /played just doing all the shit in the city.

I think the bends area is well explored in open so I think it’s on to talk about quests there. just as an example there are multiple names in that area that can be a challenge to get to at the right level, and also a really good quest that can take a while to complete that gives you a clicky neck (I think it’s sense magic but might be see invis, both are useful).

now just take that and imagine every zone having that amount of content and you begin to get the picture.

my leveling path was night harbor - Telekir - fallen pass - vale of zintar - keepers bight - back to fallen pass new area - back to keepers bight new area - glass flats - back to fallen pass yet another new area - back to night harbor for a really challenging area that is a large dungeon just hiding in the city - back to glass flats different area- back to fallen pass whole ‘nother area. A lot of the leveling didn’t feel so much like leveling as much as it did trying to get certain items to drop. I personally enjoy that, others may not.

anyways, what I completely missed because there’s simply too many options - now keep in mind; in many cases it’s still worth going to do these things for gear /quests but I am above the level at this point-

- worms bane - entire fucking dungeon that I outleveled and missed
- ancient crypt - same again
- most mob camps in keepers and vale (including the massive orc area)
- literal entire zone of shallowed shoals
- literal entire zone of grim tide sanctum
- literal entire zone of Scarwood (while more feature complete than almost any pantheon zone, this is relatively incomplete by mnm standards)
- barely touched Everglade Weald
- barely touched sungreet strand, including skipping the quarry area
- barely touched most of Telekir, including goblin area
- skipped bandit caves in glass flats, and most of the undead area but will go back to that for sure
- barely touched hidden ‘grain cellar ‘ dungeon

I could keep going but its hard to even remember everything I missed and need to go recheck
Click to expand...

Ya i dunno man maybe I just think of it differently. Sounds like a good amount but I'm not willing to refer to every POI and MOB camp as a piece of content I missed. Thanks for the answer though. Definitely clarifies things.
 
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