Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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They use a rev share model I believe so there would be expectations of future revenue, especially for a founder
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Pasteton
Vyemm Raider
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any time someone capitalizes on a revenue stream on twitch by virtue of their position developing a game, it’s a red flag, and on top of that there are multiple instances of him making class changes based on purely some rando making a comment on his stream that he happened to notice (I think this happened recently with a paladin change if I recall correctly). This is on top of the fact that he was tone deaf regarding many character balance issues, including the way he prioritized his time on some classes while others (at least publicly) received little attention. . The dude clearly loved the game and was there from the start but he needed to be ousted or atleast have his role changed ( though not sure what role)
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GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
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His shares likely switched from a Voting to non-voting so they are less "weighted" but he likely still retains the value or revenue-sharing that he did originally, now without a legal ground for creative input. Shawn / aLR mentioned this in a past stream that they have tiers of shares (Voting, non-voting, revenue sharing, and non sharing). Nick was a founding financial input, you don't just nuke that easily for many reasons some including legal and some including social perception.
Nick likely signed a NDA on the way out, you'd only sign a NDA if it was in your best interest to sign one. I say this because ALL of the "employees" of NWC signed a version of a NDA on ingest, so shawn / aLR knows they exist and employs their use. Signing a NDA on the way out the door without any kind of quid-pro-quo would be stupid to do but not unheard of BUT it also would make the NDA very weak since you have nothing to lose if you break it.
There likely isn't a "Non-disparagement clause" but there is likely a mutual understanding that defamation could result in financial loss for all parties (including nick since he still likely has a payout tier of "Stock"). Plus with Nick still likely financially tied to the company, it would be shooting yourself in the foot.
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Loser Nirgon
cuckservative censorship is real
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That's not a guy they shoulda lost. I have my principles.
Edit: and people stabbing him for how evenly he worked on developing classes so early into things wth, some of those things are done a class at a time - "your class" (WUT) might not have been the next or the next next
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Kriptini
Vyemm Raider
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We just don't know, man. I liked Nick a lot. I thought he was doing good work. Maybe him leaving is what's best for the game despite that. I like Shawn too. Yeah Shawn can act emotionally sometimes, but there's no evidence to suggest this is one of those cases and actually there's no evidence of anything whatsoever. All we can do is wait and see what happens.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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I feel like class kits should have been 99% determined months ago, especially considering the foundational existence of EQ, WoW and Vanguard that they’re pulling from. Hell, i could probably crank something fun and cohesive out in a couple weeks that would just require tinkering with the final values based on actual gameplay conditions.
The fact that they were still conceiving/creating abilities and making major changes as of last week is baffling to me.
i know Ali was involved in class design from behind the scenes. Maybe there was disagreement that stifled progress.
The fact that they were still conceiving/creating abilities and making major changes as of last week is baffling to me.
i know Ali was involved in class design from behind the scenes. Maybe there was disagreement that stifled progress.
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Conceptually it's fairly simple but there is a bit of plumbing that makes this harder during early dev. Like perhaps you want an aura for a class, but don't have the code for auras yet so that gets set aside. Want lifetaps? Better have code in place to have actual damage number report into a healing recourse so they match. Want archery skills? Do you have hooks in your range attack system to facilitate that, or did you just write it for melee and gotta go refactor? How about animations and visual effects? Maybe the ability is made but it's missing juice required to go into live client. Just examples, I'm aware they've already got all of this working.
None of it is hard individually but it adds up to time and fragmentation of ideas. So you end up with a kind of hodgepodge like it is currently.
Now could you come in at this point and make something coherent? Yea probably I bet they've got the majority of that sort of thing nailed down now, but I think I'm probably pretty close to why things look how they do at the moment. Probably need exactly what you're suggesting a completely fresh look and realignment of design.
Nick
Trakanon Raider
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Hey guys, thank you for the kind words, and for all of the support over the years.
I won't be able to answer any questions or make any clarifications, but I just wanted to let you know that I've been reading here since the beginning, and I've appreciated all of the feedback, good and bad.
I hope that you guys will continue to enjoy Monsters & Memories.
Thanks again,
-Nick
I won't be able to answer any questions or make any clarifications, but I just wanted to let you know that I've been reading here since the beginning, and I've appreciated all of the feedback, good and bad.
I hope that you guys will continue to enjoy Monsters & Memories.
Thanks again,
-Nick
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Shouldn’t it be… you conceive the kits based on the gameplay experiences and class interactions you want, and then hand it off to coders to be executed? We’re not talking about revolutionary stuff that hasn’t been done before. It all exists in many examples of MMORPGs.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Ideally sure, but they've been building the car as it's been driving. Also I suspect no development is that linear, you build test, tweak, repeat. What you write down on paper probably on vaguely resembles the end result. The way it feels and interacts with other systems is going to change the approach. My 2c
Edit: also that assumes you're only doing class design and not being pulled to do other stuff. Remember they're making an entire game not just classes. I can only speak to my own experience doing things alone, but it's a whole lot of plates to spin and keep an end goal in mind
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Kithani
Vyemm Raider
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Just make an alt account and stick around to trash talk future games!
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GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Grabbit Allworth
Confirmed J6 Insurrectionist
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I met aLR (Shawn) a couple times in the early '00s. I didn't remember we had met until a few weeks ago because he looks so different than he did in his 20s and I have only followed MnM extremely loosely.
While he seemed like (is?) a really nice guy, after my interactions with him, I came away feeling that there was a potential rage or seething boiling under the surface, just out of sight.
More simply put, back then, he struck me as someone that would go from smiles to tongue-lashing you into bloody ribbons once his patience had been exhausted. That seems to line up with what other people are reporting.
While he seemed like (is?) a really nice guy, after my interactions with him, I came away feeling that there was a potential rage or seething boiling under the surface, just out of sight.
More simply put, back then, he struck me as someone that would go from smiles to tongue-lashing you into bloody ribbons once his patience had been exhausted. That seems to line up with what other people are reporting.
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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He's confirmed that himself yea
Edit: he even has an item in game about it
Azaliil's Ring of Anger
Everquest Item Information for Azaliil's Ring of Anger
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Pharone
Trakanon Raider
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Hmm... ok... so I take a break from reading every single message in this thread and when I come back to catch up, Nick is gone from the game. Holy shit balls batman. What the fuck did I miss exactly?
Is this like when THE VISION wielding man left EverQuest and we went from "its got potential" to somehow two and a half decades later having nothing to look forward to in EQ every year other than more of the same with higher HP, Mana, AC and even more free pride pets? I didn't follow the game close enough to know how much of the design of MnM was because of Nick or not, so no idea what this means for the game.
Is this like when THE VISION wielding man left EverQuest and we went from "its got potential" to somehow two and a half decades later having nothing to look forward to in EQ every year other than more of the same with higher HP, Mana, AC and even more free pride pets? I didn't follow the game close enough to know how much of the design of MnM was because of Nick or not, so no idea what this means for the game.
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