Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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GuardianX said:
I agree and I think this is gunna be a wild ride for the team.

They said they only need a small amount of subs but then the number i heard thrown out is 15,000? I don't think it's a wildly out of reach number but...that depends on a consumer that stops playing and keeps paying at this rate.

I know I don't do that.

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To your point though; and I dunno if this is weird logic or a side point but I think it points to the concept of "perception" like you are getting at.

So many class changes and, really, game changes are gunna be happening for AT LEAST 2 more years because their EA is really just "beta". I made a note on their discord that "you need to really hammer home this is ALPHA not beta" because people have different sets of expectations for an "Alpha" vs a "beta" and people expect that since this is a "beta" that EA will be a "release". Any instability NOW points to a product that isn't ready for "release" but the reality is that instability NOW should be expected since it's an alpha.

I saw ONE dev say "you are basically playing on development servers"...that's not enough, that fact needs to be hammered home because people aren't testing, they are "previewing" or "playing a game for free" and the perception is that "this is the last push before release" and people are treating it that way with the raid "Schedules", the camp disputes, the information hoarding...ect.

I've watched several guilds now hoard bugs for later use (which is why I find it funny some of yall championing some guilds and being like "the other guy cheated!" when all ya be cheatin..).

People treatin this test cycle as the real thing with their expectations set as such.
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Good post. It really gets at what I was saying last year about how it's a bit audacious of them to charge a monthly fee for early access. Because in reality they're charging you a monthly fee to beta test for them.
 
O

Ortega

Vyemm Raider
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I wanted to like this, but I just can't go back to EQ style clunky movement, etc. It's not a graphics thing its just a fluidity of gameplay thing.
 
GuardianX

GuardianX

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Gravel said:
Good post. It really gets at what I was saying last year about how it's a bit audacious of them to charge a monthly fee for early access. Because in reality they're charging you a monthly fee to beta test for them.
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I mean, I get what you are saying and, to a degree I agree.

I don't really have a problem with people paying to "Test" things but there needs to be a clear understanding of the state of the product and the expectations for what you are spending.

ATM the product is set in 3-ish phases:

ALPHA (Now)
BETA (EA)
Release (1.0)

But the implication of the states is:

BETA (Now)
BETA-ier BETA (EA)
Release (1.0)

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Quaid said:
I'm talking about the other 20+ million lapsed or current MMORPG players. There should be some portion of them, which I'd hope to be measured in the thousands, that find themselves at least curious enough to try something for free with each new public test.
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If you look at the ARR (FFXIV) re-release it showed you that some brands have an amazing amount of loyalty. SE took a huge hit for that test of loyalty though. Decades of brand recognition was on the line as well as millions of dollars. MNM has no brand loyalty, people in their closed alpha were exploiting and trying to keep those exploits secret.

To even remotely slice a pittance of that 20m disenfranchised MMO players from the market you gunna have to pull way better numbers than their socials pull.



Also, a majority of that 20 million will never touch this game, they are the MMO-Mobilers. Best to assume their potential market is a fraction of the EQ / OSRS scene and a sliver of a fraction of the general MMO scene.
 
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Kithani

Kithani

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Gravel said:
Good post. It really gets at what I was saying last year about how it's a bit audacious of them to charge a monthly fee for early access. Because in reality they're charging you a monthly fee to beta test for them.
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I mean has this ever not been the case?

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Pheerie

Pheerie

Potato del Grande
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GuardianX said:
I mean, I get what you are saying and, to a degree I agree.

I don't really have a problem with people paying to "Test" things but there needs to be a clear understanding of the state of the product and the expectations for what you are spending.

ATM the product is set in 3-ish phases:

ALPHA (Now)
BETA (EA)
Release (1.0)

But the implication of the states is:

BETA (Now)
BETA-ier BETA (EA)
Release (1.0)

---


If you look at the ARR (FFXIV) re-release it showed you that some brands have an amazing amount of loyalty. SE took a huge hit for that test of loyalty though. Decades of brand recognition was on the line as well as millions of dollars. MNM has no brand loyalty, people in their closed alpha were exploiting and trying to keep those exploits secret.

To even remotely slice a pittance of that 20m disenfranchised MMO players from the market you gunna have to pull way better numbers than their socials pull.



Also, a majority of that 20 million will never touch this game, they are the MMO-Mobilers. Best to assume their potential market is a fraction of the EQ / OSRS scene and a sliver of a fraction of the general MMO scene.
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Beta, alpha , early access don't mean much anymore. People just slap whatever label and ask for money.
 
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Kithani

Kithani

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Pasteton said:
The bug hoarding is a real thing , but there’s other issues as well. I was regularly blowing shit up to the devs but what’s nuts is they still don’t change it. Stuff like enchant ally being stackable on a single target/tank, I’ve notified the devs dozens of times , they either don’t care or don’t have a good process for communicating things / getting things changed.
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Anyone hoarding bugs and not reporting them should just be permabanned from beta IMO although I get it’s hard to “prove”
 
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Tol

Tol

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Yeah. Like I buy plenty of early access stuff and sometimes check it out for a bit, then come back to it in a year or two when its done. Usually the early access is pretty discounted compared to the 1.0 release too. Paying a subscription fee to beta test though? Fuck that lol
 
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Hekotat

Hekotat

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Not many people I know are playing currently, we are all waiting on the class changes to simmer down. Nothing sucks more than logging in feeling really powerful and having that taken away. You'll never get that feeling back once you've felt it, so it would be idiotic to jump in so early.

I want nothing more than to play but I'm just going to wait a bit.
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

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Hekotat said:
Not many people I know are playing currently, we are all waiting on the class changes to simmer down. Nothing sucks more than logging in feeling really powerful and having that taken away. You'll never get that feeling back once you've felt it, so it would be idiotic to jump in so early.

I want nothing more than to play but I'm just going to wait a bit.
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Likewise. And there is still a lot of lead developer comments after every patch indicating changes to core gameplay.

For example after the last class patch went live, the devs said explicitly the vision has changed for combat and that "burst damage" is intended for all classes despite not being implemented at this time.

This burst/rest gameplay is a new intention by the developers that people here are overlooking in terms of how difficult it will be to implement fully. It means even after a class patch, they still have to go back to each class and rework it to fit the new burst/rest combat they want.

When I read that they intend to change combat flow long term (as these class patches began with major changes) I stepped back completely, because combat flow changes mean even greater alterations to gameplay than the class reworks we have seen so far. People have no idea the implications of these overhauls yet before they become fully realized.
 
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Kithani

Kithani

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jayrebb said:
Likewise. And there is still a lot of lead developer comments after every patch indicating changes to core gameplay.

For example after the last class patch went live, the devs said explicitly the vision has changed for combat and that "burst damage" is intended for all classes despite not being implemented at this time.

This burst/rest gameplay is a new intention by the developers that people here are overlooking in terms of how difficult it will be to implement fully. It means even after a class patch, they still have to go back to each class and rework it to fit the new burst/rest combat they want.

When I read that they intend to change combat flow (as these class patches began with major changes) I stepped back completely because combat flow changes mean even greater alterations to gameplay than the class reworks we have seen so far.
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Do you have info on where they stated that burst/rest stuff? I'd be interested to read/listen to it
 
jayrebb

jayrebb

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Kithani said:
Do you have info on where they stated that burst/rest stuff? I'd be interested to read/listen to it
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It was a discord post by Shawn in response to people giving negative feedback on the first major class patch. He was basically letting people know burst is intended with long rest times. TTK will remain the same (or become longer), but combat flow won't be staying the same as more reworks are done. They want people blowing a damage cooldown per fight or every other fight-- I guess to keep things engaging during a mob kill. The implication was rest times/cooldown will be adjusted accordingly to accommodate. Slow TTK, but with burst CDs basically.
 
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