MTG thread

The problem is is that people use its weighted mulligan system as a crutch and then get punished hard by normal draws in subsequent turns. All kinds of decks run only like 27-28 power sources (some of which are often tutors which means further thinning)in their 75, which is pure madness and only even sort of functions because the the mulligan system is so forgiving on your opening hand.

The 3 card limit and 75 card deck does add a non-insignificant amount of additional variance though that really comes with no upside that I can figure.

Eternal is 4x card limit. I believe they went with 75 to force more variance in deck construction. I wonder how 3x/60 min would have felt.

drtyrm said:

How could Eternal be so much worse than MtG when it has a digital mulligan rule that couldn't be recreated with paper cards?

By 'estimate' you mean 'guessing' right?

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Its mulligan rule isn't that great, you get a one time only mulligan and it gives a min of 2 mana only from a deck that gets a one time shuffle.

Enzee
I'd say draw/tutor/library manipulation in eternal is reduced by 3/4 compared to mtg, there is barely any and most of it is subpar at that even. I'm still amazed by some of their poor design choices still, just like the recent nerfs that happened.

drtyrm said:

Eternal is 4x card limit. I believe they went with 75 to force more variance in deck construction. I wonder how 3x/60 min would have felt.

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I argued for this exact thing many times in multiple threads on the beta boards. It would have achieved their desired effect of more variance in how games play out, without increasing the chance of screw/flood so much. The aggravating thing is, we never got any kind of response or acknowledgement from the dev team about it any point. It's one of the main reasons I stopped playing it at the time.

As for my 'guess', not exactly. Myself and others once ran the numbers for one of the threads about this on the beta boards, I just don't have them available anymore. It was close to 10% of games, but I was being conservative since they did add a handful of things that should have helped. Such as power cards that have a small effect (gain life, make a 1/1, etc..) if you already have 4 of that influence in play. They have a very, very minor effect overall, but it's a step in the right direction at least.

Derpa said:

Its mulligan rule isn't that great, you get a one time only mulligan and it gives a min of 2 mana only from a deck that gets a one time shuffle.

Enzee
I'd say draw/tutor/library manipulation in eternal is reduced by 3/4 compared to mtg, there is barely any and most of it is subpar at that even. I'm still amazed by some of their poor design choices still, just like the recent nerfs that happened.

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Yep, the mulligan isn't really that great. Once you realize you only get a single mulligan, no option for more, it's not all that much better then paris mulligan rules. In mtg, you might get a hand that is '3 mana, 4 spells' and yet you know it wont win the game and ship it. Getting a 6 that is also really bad happens and then you might go to 5. If your opponent also went to 5/6 cards, you've still got a good chance to win. That doesn't happen in Eternal, you are stuck with that 2nd hand, even if it's got 3 of the wrong mana for the other 4 cards. It might be technically a good mix of mana/non mana, but it's still a terrible hand. Then, you might draw 4 more of the same card type in a row and just lose as a result.

Also, yea, I was being generous on the 1/2 estimate as I haven't played mtg standard in the last year or two. Compared to standard formats I played, it's like 3/4th less, but figured maybe there isn't great tools available currently.

ronne said:

The problem is is that people use its weighted mulligan system as a crutch and then get punished hard by normal draws in subsequent turns. All kinds of decks run only like 27-28 power sources (some of which are often tutors which means further thinning)in their 75, which is pure madness and only even sort of functions because the the mulligan system is so forgiving on your opening hand.

The 3 card limit and 75 card deck does add a non-insignificant amount of additional variance though that really comes with no upside that I can figure.

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You are right, but it's also that their mana system works differently. Once you have 1 of a certain 'influence', all your mana can be used for that. Or, more accurately it's a threshold system. To translate magic cards, if you had one mountain and 5 forests in play, you could cast 6 red 1 drops. If magic suddenly implemented this system, most decks could run a few less lands as well. So, the ratios don't translate directly just quite. 27-28 power in an eternal deck is like 23-24 ish for a magic midrange deck. But, 25 power is the minimum and is like running 18-20 in an aggro deck.

People aren't just getting mana screwed, though, they also flood out a ton even at 27-28 power in the deck. It's one of the reasons aggro decks have almost always been decent even with 25 starting life. If you run the minimum power (25) and most of your deck only costs 1-2, you are guaranteed to get at least 2 on the mulligan. It helps circumvent some of the issues.

Also, as pointed out before, it's 4x cards limit and 75 card decks, btw.

Jace the Mind Sculptor and Bloodbraid Elf unbanned.

While I think it's safe, I also don't know why you'd piss in the pool when the environment right now is great.

The real reason JTMS was unbanned was obviously due to Story Reasons. When he had all of his memories and powers returned to him on Ixalan, that was just the ban repeal in action.

The reason totally isn't to sell a truckload of M25.

I'll be laughing my ass off when he gets rebanned in 6 months and everyone loses their shirts on 150$ copies of Jace.

Masters 25 reprinting at mythis isn't gonna touch his price. He'll be 150$ until he gets banned again.

I miss Jace Beleren. Best Divination.

Jace is a good but reasonable card in Modern, which is what a lot of people have been saying for years. I mean against Affinity tapping out for 4 mana and bouncing their Vault Skirge doesn't seem very exciting. That being said the prospect of a do nothing deck that uses Jace and Colonades as the win cons is very exciting to me. Why win on turn 5 when you can win on turn 35, that's 7 times the fun.

The issue with Jace is the potential for him to crowd out any other midrange strategy. There's a very real scenario in which he is good enough that the format warps to be hyper aggressive plans (burn, affinity, etc) or decks that go over the top of Jace (tron, valakuk, etc.).

I think Jace is probably fine. UW control already has a pile of good walkers, and Jace doesn't do a good job protecting himself vs go wide strategies.

I'm optimistic that we'll see a reasonable Temur tempo build that resembles Twin without a combo kill, mainly due to BBE + Ancestral Visions and Jace at the top end.

ronne said:

The issue with Jace is the potential for him to crowd out any other midrange strategy. There's a very real scenario in which he is good enough that the format warps to be hyper aggressive plans (burn, affinity, etc) or decks that go over the top of Jace (tron, valakuk, etc.).

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We're already there. Affinity, Tron, Storm were the most represented decks at the PT. I think JTMS will sell some packs though.

Arena invites might be starting to get faster - just got mine.

Well, if I don't get one, and anyone doesn't want to use theirs. PM me.

Yea, first impression is very rough thusfar - it's nice to see them going with a HS/etc type model - but it's really dull right now with basically every person playing the same dinosaur deck (I'm guessing it's the best pauper deck right now to put together on the cheap)

The monetization scheme is going to need a lot of work. For right now, it feels like playing in a Sealed League. This shit's the reason we got rid of Block Constructed in the first place, so not exactly the best feeling introduction to the system.

I kind of the miss the pre-block version of mtg. There's no doubt that block sets are 10x better for booster drafts, but being able to build from a core set and ~4 individual sets gives you a lot more variety of decks. Waaaay back around '97 I was the youngest to win a local tournament with my burn/protection/mindbend deck. Play only creatures with protection of a any color and use mind bend/sleight of mind to change the color to counter my opponents colors. Then just lightning bolt/chain lightning & disintegrate them to death. Good times.