MTG thread

I think I like the change...although im still very new. I did however enjoy drafting core sets the most so far. But I have only been playing since Theros so I dont know a whole lot about how good older sets were to draft.

Amazing. Zen era drafts were okay but Alara and Tide block drafts were sooooooooooooooo fucking good. Don't even get me started on RoE drafts. Probably put those even with tide block.

Yay, they cut the game's vestigial tail off!

The only drawback is it will be weird when Khan + one expansion rotate out and then later in the year the other expansion from that block and M15 rotate out. Very minor stuff.

Taloo_sl said:

Amazing. Zen era drafts were okay but Alara and Tide block drafts were sooooooooooooooo fucking good. Don't even get me started on RoE drafts. Probably put those even with tide block.

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I have been playing since Revised and nothing, NOTHING, beats triple Innistrad draft. No idea why but that shit was amazing sauce.

Ehhh it was okay. Often felt like you got cut pretty hard when I drafted it. Whereas with the others I listed probably half the time I drafted I ended up with a deck I would have been fine playing at a FNM as did half the table. I think I mainly drafted block rather than 3x INN though, I wasn't that active during that block so I probably drafted less than a dozen times.

I'm actually excited about the 2 set per block change... except that it further prices competitive standard out of most folks. Fuck buying lands every 18 months instead of 24 months now. Replacing random mediocre duals with distant cousins for ridiculous cost every cycle is what killed standard for me in the first place and this will only exacerbate that problem. I could handle paying for good new cards with new abilities because they often had prospects for new deck ideas down the road. But what the fuck do I needyet anotherset of dual lands with a 'new and engaging' drawback for after they cycle out?

Play a mono colour deck?

Even mono colored decks want some of the new lands each cycle. Maybe lands like Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, or some of the current temples in there colors to scry with.

There are ways to play, and do well, with out lands from the cycles. However most times they seem to make doing well a little easier.

Standard cards cycling out and become useless is what they have to do to keep people buying the new sets unfortunately. Because in the end that is the business they are in, selling cardboard crack, errr cards.

Palum_sl said:

I'm actually excited about the 2 set per block change... except that it further prices competitive standard out of most folks. Fuck buying lands every 18 months instead of 24 months now. Replacing random mediocre duals with distant cousins for ridiculous cost every cycle is what killed standard for me in the first place and this will only exacerbate that problem. I could handle paying for good new cards with new abilities because they often had prospects for new deck ideas down the road. But what the fuck do I needyet anotherset of dual lands with a 'new and engaging' drawback for after they cycle out?

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Potentially, it could be easier (or at least no more difficult). Keep in mind, you're not buying new lands every 24 months right now. You're buying them every 12. It's very unlikely that WotC is going to want to commit 30 rares every rotation to mana fixing. For one, they're producing fewer individual cards per year so those rare slots matter more in sets. Also, having a new set of duals in every block means a likely 3 duals per color pair, not 2 (2.5 at peak like now when we have two core sets legal). That's a LOT of mana fixing.

There may just be entire blocks without new duals, but even if not then chances are you won't be buying them more often. This is especially true if we see another reprinted cycle like shocks.

Heylel_sl said:

Faster rotation without additional sets is definitely a good thing. It won't mean significantly higher costs to play, but it will mean no deck dominates for quite as long. Also, you can put "risky' reprints in the small sets where they'll only be legal 15 months. Even that amount of time is enough to be oppressive (see Mutavault).

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Faster rotation is a direct increase in the cost of the game. Same cards at the same prices but they last 25% shorter time. You have to spend more money more often to play the same game - how is this not an increase in the game's cost?

And the loss of core set means we lose the main avenue for Standard/Modern legal reprints. Scavenging Ooze would never be Modern legal without core set. Slivers would never be Standard/Modern legal without core set (no matter how much demand a "Return to Rath" set might have, there is no Rath to return to). Without core set, Chord of Calling would still be a $40 card. And no, they will not reprint these cards in expert blocks because of mechanical and/or thematic clashes. Thoughtseize can be reprinted be the name and mechanics are generic, but Inquisition of Kozilek will never see print again thanks to these changes.

Heylel_sl said:

Potentially, it could be easier (or at least no more difficult). Keep in mind, you're not buying new lands every 24 months right now. You're buying them every 12. It's very unlikely that WotC is going to want to commit 30 rares every rotation to mana fixing. For one, they're producing fewer individual cards per year so those rare slots matter more in sets. Also, having a new set of duals in every block means a likely 3 duals per color pair, not 2 (2.5 at peak like now when we have two core sets legal). That's a LOT of mana fixing.

There may just be entire blocks without new duals, but even if not then chances are you won't be buying them more often. This is especially true if we see another reprinted cycle like shocks.

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Shocklands, Temples, Nykthos, and Mana Confluence are all 24 month lands. They are all over Standard. Painlands and Mutavaults are 12 month lands. And while Mutavaults are absurdly popular, painlands are only used in aggro and mid-range. Hell, for the budget-minded player, we had Gates at common for 24 months, and if they keep the same rarity from Duel Decks the wedges will be 3-color lands at uncommon (again, 24 months).

The manabase is always one of the most, if not the most, expensive part of the deck. The silver lining has always been it lasting for 2 years. Unless Wizards is willing to print important lands at lower rarities (they aren't), then they are knowingly decreasing the longevity of the Standard manabases by 25% - and increasing the cost of the game to players.

umerok_sl said:

Shocklands, Temples, Nykthos, and Mana Confluence are all 24 month lands. They are all over Standard. Painlands and Mutavaults are 12 month lands. And while Mutavaults are absurdly popular, painlands are only used in aggro and mid-range. Hell, for the budget-minded player, we had Gates at common for 24 months, and if they keep the same rarity from Duel Decks the wedges will be 3-color lands at uncommon (again, 24 months).

The manabase is always one of the most, if not the most, expensive part of the deck. The silver lining has always been it lasting for 2 years. Unless Wizards is willing to print important lands at lower rarities (they aren't), then they are knowingly decreasing the longevity of the Standard manabases by 25% - and increasing the cost of the game to players.

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If you want to nitpick, then no... Shocks, temples etc. aren't "24 month lands". Only the ones in the large, fall set are. In this case, that's half the shocks, 3 temples, and Nykthos. The rest all last a much shorter time. Journey into Nyx temples are only going to be legal for 18 months as it is. Core sets were always 15 months, and up until M14 have been a significant part of deck fixing.

You are still buying cards from 4 sets per year, just like before. No one skips a block just because their lands are still legal. The new rotation will impact the ebb and flow of the singles market, but I honestly don't expect it to dramatically change the cost of playing standard at the level of competition an FNM provides. You'll still be able to buy a netdeck from an SCG Open for about the same price, if that's your thing.

umerok_sl said:

Faster rotation is a direct increase in the cost of the game. Same cards at the same prices but they last 25% shorter time. You have to spend more money more often to play the same game - how is this not an increase in the game's cost?

And the loss of core set means we lose the main avenue for Standard/Modern legal reprints. Scavenging Ooze would never be Modern legal without core set. Slivers would never be Standard/Modern legal without core set (no matter how much demand a "Return to Rath" set might have, there is no Rath to return to). Without core set, Chord of Calling would still be a $40 card. And no, they will not reprint these cards in expert blocks because of mechanical and/or thematic clashes. Thoughtseize can be reprinted be the name and mechanics are generic, but Inquisition of Kozilek will never see print again thanks to these changes.

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You're delusional if you don't think Scavenging Ooze or Slivers would be available to be printed in a Expert level set. Up until recently, everytime Slivers were printed were in an expert block...

The article also specifically mentioned including more mechanics ("The overall number of mechanics would rise slightly"). Which means that a card like Chord of Calling could also be printed within another block and that convoke could be included in that block. Not every mechanic in a block has to be a new one, and several have already been recycled more than once.

IoK would also never be printed in a Core Set anyway, so your third gripe is also moot. There will still be supplemental sets and decks printed so anything is fair game. I would still expect to see a Modern Masters 2 set come out next year sometime. IoK could reasonably be included in that set.


Overall this change is a very positive one for Standard where the meta can stay so stagnant. More change is good.

My bias mostly comes from how much I despise core sets since Tenth Edition when starting in M10 they decided to included new cards in the base set just to sell them. Why not just give us real sets if you want us to buy cards? Now they will!

umerok_sl said:

Unless Wizards is willing to print important lands at lower rarities (they aren't)

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Guild gates are uncommon correct? They are willing to get away from the Core set entirely but couldn't change their stance on this? Doesn't make sense to me.

I don't mind rare lands. I mind having three sets of them in Standard at the same time. Right now we've got scry lands, pain lands, and shock lands. There is also Mutavault and Mana Confluence on top and then some specialty lands like Nykthos and Urborg. A deck like Esper running 20 rare lands is not alright with me. The entire cycle of scry lands should have been uncommon.

Two out of three of those are reprints, and shock lands were something people begged for. At this point, none of them are more than $8. Mutavault is the only land in standard to have commanded a price over $20 since Cavern of Souls two blocks ago. Moreover, decks running 20 rare lands have been common pretty much forever. That's just the nature of competitive magic decks.

but it was fine any other time like when we had the m lands? and shocks? whats your gripe about? the cost? its standard, it happens, get them early so the price doesn't baloon out, or trade for them this isn't hard, also i havent seen a tri colored deck thats using some of all 3 sets atm, hell my bug list runs 12 shocks 12 scrys,

I got back into playing a little under three weeks ago. I had 6 semi complete sets of cards from around 1997-2001 , Mirage Visions Weatherlight, and Tempest Stronghold Exodus. Missing a couple of the high value cards (Lion's Eye Diamond, Ensnaring Bridge etc). This were NM perfect since I was a NM collector back then.

I was able to turn all of the $5+ cards (Wasteland $100 uncommon, really?) into 3 Standard decks plus multiple play sets of non-rotating out dual lands and useful cards. I have drafted every FNM since I started back as well. I bought a few boxes of cards also. Total spent in under 3 weeks around 50 bucks after trade value from my sets.

Going forward I am sure I will drop 300 or so per expansion as I did back in the 90's. If you learn the cards and the prices quickly it is not hard to turn stuff around and have cards fast.

At least it has been that way for me so far.

Guildgates are common. Things which are the core theme of the set always have cards at common, expect common trilands in the next set like Alara had.

umerok_sl said:

And the loss of core set means we lose the main avenue for Standard/Modern legal reprints. Scavenging Ooze would never be Modern legal without core set. Slivers would never be Standard/Modern legal without core set (no matter how much demand a "Return to Rath" set might have, there is no Rath to return to). Without core set, Chord of Calling would still be a $40 card. And no, they will not reprint these cards in expert blocks because of mechanical and/or thematic clashes. Thoughtseize can be reprinted be the name and mechanics are generic, but Inquisition of Kozilek will never see print again thanks to these changes.

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1) Whatever replaces the Core Set. I'm guessing standard legal non block dual decks/intro pack type things, which they kinda already have now with the newbie packs with some core set cards which are not in boosters.

2) Modern Masters 2.

3) Double the space to actually have sets on these planes with plane specific cards. Return to Zendikar/Eldrazi storyline is guarenteed with how often it is referenced in the lore. Dominaria/Shandalar can have a set full of Silvers. Scavenging Ooze could have been printed in any set ever.