NBA 2014 - 2015 Season Thread

PatrickStar

PatrickStar

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I can't deny that Love isn't sacrificing 100% to "fit in". However, how is Lebron (and I mean Lebron not the Cavs as a team) helping to accommodate Love? The expectation is for Love to do all of the sacrificing.

Also the whole fitting in bullshit has to stop. Lebron wants a family for a team. This isn't high school. This is the professionals. Is Love skipping practice and ignoring play calls like a bad teammate? No. Love shows up to play every game and will stand in the corner spotting up for threes just like Lebron wants him to do. I find this to be my biggest annoyance with Lebron. He is essentially criticizing Love for not being a "brother". And I don't mean his skin color. You don't have to be everyone's best friend to win. Do you expect everyone on your team to be best buds? Of course not. Lebron needs to drop the friends 4 life bullshit and realize different people have different personalities.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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Love is a prick in general though. I wouldn't blame anyone for not getting along with him. That doesn't mean he isn't a very good player though. Even in this down year he's still a top 5 PF.
 
DickTrickle

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PatrickStar_sl said:
I can't deny that Love isn't sacrificing 100% to "fit in". However, how is Lebron (and I mean Lebron not the Cavs as a team) helping to accommodate Love? The expectation is for Love to do all of the sacrificing.

Also the whole fitting in bullshit has to stop. Lebron wants a family for a team. This isn't high school. This is the professionals. Is Love skipping practice and ignoring play calls like a bad teammate? No. Love shows up to play every game and will stand in the corner spotting up for threes just like Lebron wants him to do. I find this to be my biggest annoyance with Lebron. He is essentially criticizing Love for not being a "brother". And I don't mean his skin color. You don't have to be everyone's best friend to win. Do you expect everyone on your team to be best buds? Of course not. Lebron needs to drop the friends 4 life bullshit and realize different people have different personalities.
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It's so weird you'd say that when there was a story just a few days ago where Lebron said he only has four close NBA friends and everyone else is basically a teammate.

I am curious, though, what is Lebron doing that is causing Kevin Love damage? Like, how could Lebron sacrifice to help out Love?
 
PatrickStar

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I think I remember that story. His best friends is something like Melo, COB and Wade. Odd mix.

I see it like this. LeBron doesn't want to alter his game. He is the point guard running the offense. It's not even Kyrie anymore. Kyrie brings the ball up but basically he is an undersized shooting guard. Kyrie and Love have to change their game to fit in. In Love's case he has to change a lot. But at some point you should look to use more of Love's strengths if it means giving up a little of LeBron ' s dominance. Yes I know it's the 4 time MVP I am talking about. But if LeBron keeps talking about fitting in then when are you going to give up a little of the offense to make Love comfortable?

That's on the court stuff but it bleeds into off the court issues. Love doesn't like to go out allegedly. He's a home body. Maybe he doesn't joke around as much as the rest of the team. It's like when my work group goes on travel. After work or meetings it's okay if we don't all go out to the same place for dinner. Some of us get together. Some of us don't. It's ok. We don't hold it against each other. We are different. But that doesn't mean that will affect our working relationship. That is where I think LeBron has erred. His letting Love's different personality bleed over into their professional relationship.

The tweets and thinly veiled media comments are in my opinion actually unprofessional. He does not need to fit in personally just professionally. And I think Love has done more to adjust and fit in on the court than I think LeBron has.

And for the record I am not a hater of LeBron. I would actually call myself a fan of his. Which I guess is why I find it disappointing. You don't publically question a teammate you don't know and therefore not know how he is wired. Just not something a good leader would.
 
Muurloen

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The Beard scores, a career high, 51 pointsin a 115-111 win against the Kings. This his is 2nd game this season, and career, that he scored over 50 points or more. I wonder if he gets the majority of 2nd place votes, with a few 1st place votes sprinkled in, and Westbrook takes away enough 1st place votes from Steph Curry, would it be enough Harden win the MVP? That would actually be quite awesome.
 
DickTrickle

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Westbrook has been kind of awful (well, compared to his previous month) the past couple weeks. He seems like less of a threat than he did a month ago. 40% shooting and 6 per TO game in March.
 
Slaythe

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I hate that one great game has people talking about Harden taking over the MVP race. He's in the running, there's no question about that. It's just hard for me to argue against Steph's consistency this year.
 
Muurloen

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With Dwight Howard only playing half of the season, Harden has been carrying the Rockets to a tie for the 2nd best record for the West. And Howard has not been the only injury causality to the team (see Terrence Jones, Patrick Beverly, Donatas Motiejunas). Harden body of work for the whole season is of MVP quality, but he won't win it because he is not the best player on the best team, which is a retarded way to vote/declare an MVP.
 
DickTrickle

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I think it's tough to rely on the injury explanation so much because there's not evidence Curry couldn't carry the team. Curry's only playing 32 minutes because they blow so many teams out. Maybe with some key injuries he plays 37-38 and they don't blow as many people out and win just a few less games -- ala Harden and the Rockets.
 
Slaythe

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I agree with all of that but Curry winning it above him isn't a crime. Curry is the best player on the best team and he's also very arguably putting up the best statistical season of anyone in the league. I don't see how that as well doesn't define the league MVP.
 
popsicledeath

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I remember a lot of people saying Harden was a good 3rd option but not star material. Imagine Harden carrying OKC while Durant was injured, letting Durant take more time to heal and be ready for a playoff run which would have been more impressive than what Harden is doing in Houston or what Westbrook kinda did for OKC. Westbrook should have never been in the MVP discussion. Harden definitely should be. Curry should win, though. Curry has that magnifying effect where he makes his team better, and the better team makes him better, and he in turn makes the team even better, etc. Harden just makes the Rockets better, and that's that. Yeah, he carries them, but not the same way. Curry wins MVP, Harden offensive player of the year.
 
DickTrickle

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popsicledeath_sl said:
I remember a lot of people saying Harden was a good 3rd option but not star material. Imagine Harden carrying OKC while Durant was injured, letting Durant take more time to heal and be ready for a playoff run which would have been more impressive than what Harden is doing in Houston or what Westbrook kinda did for OKC. Westbrook should have never been in the MVP discussion. Harden definitely should be. Curry should win, though. Curry has that magnifying effect where he makes his team better, and the better team makes him better, and he in turn makes the team even better, etc. Harden just makes the Rockets better, and that's that. Yeah, he carries them, but not the same way. Curry wins MVP, Harden offensive player of the year.
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I find this post a little odd. You're knocking Harden for something he didn't have a chance to do (carry the Thunder) and praising Curry for something he hasn't done (make a different team better). How can you say Harden just makes the Rockets better when his last year with OKC was the year they made the Finals? He simply wasn't allowed the minutes/ball usage to shine as his play on the Rockets show. And Curry's only been on one team so you really can only say Curry makes the Warriors better -- not any/every team. You could also make an argument that Kerr has played such a big role in the team's success that Curry can't take as much of the credit as Harden. Just not following the logic here.

One thing I haven't kept up on is their defensive bonafides. I'd read Harden was decent now but on Curry I hear anything from they still hide him on defense to he's actually decently above average.
 
popsicledeath

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I'm not knocking Harden. I'm knocking doubters and the Thunder for giving him up (instead of Westbrook). If Harden had been carrying OKC the same way, they'd probably be going into the playoffs strong, instead this weak shit with Westbrook where they had to push Durant to come back because Westbrook puts up numbers but the whole time all you're thinking it might not actually be the best for the team in the long run. In short, I was saying Harden is and always has been better than Westbrook, because I hate Westbrook.

Harden is one of my favorite players from when he was on OKC, and he's fun to watch now, but he doesn't have the same impact as Curry. Curry and the warriors have an amazing synergy, chemistry, flow, and part of the amazing thing with Curry's season is he's having one of the best offensive years in a long time by being really unselfish and working within a system that is in large part dependent on him, but then also rewards him the more he gets others involved. Harden basically is the Houston offense, him either taking it himself or dishing from having taken it himself.

A lot of credit goes to Kerr, sure. But without Curry, the offense wouldn't be what it is. I literally don't believe you could plug any other player in the league in and have the same results. No offense to Harden, but there are plenty of players you could plug in who could play the same role. Their team isn't that impressive, which is why I'd say he's the offensive player of the year, but not the most valuable player.

I'm not sure what you're talking about that Curry doesn't make every team better. I literally don't know what you mean or what you read to respond like that. The fixation on Harden having been on another team and Curry never on another is odd, and I don't get it.

Both aren't full time defenders. It's always been a liability of Harden's, and Curry just doesn't have the energy because he's running so much on offense and often guarding other runners. That said, Harden's defense has come a long way when he puts in the effort, and Curry can defend, though mostly with energetic ball denial, like against LAC when he did about as well as could be done against Chris Paul who still had a solid game. Harden spaces out and stands around on defense at times, and Curry just can't keep that level of energy because he's putting so much in on offense. It doesn't make them bad, just not full time defenders.
 
DickTrickle

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popsicledeath_sl said:
I'm not sure what you're talking about that Curry doesn't make every team better. I literally don't know what you mean or what you read to respond like that. The fixation on Harden having been on another team and Curry never on another is odd, and I don't get it.
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I was just as confused when I read your post. You said Curry makes his team better then said Harden only makes the Rockets better, which to me sounds about the same. I guess I was taking you too literally (ie, Curry has only been on one team so in a sense he only has ever made the Warriors better). Your fleshed out reply made more sense, in that you seem to mean that Curry allows better team dynamics to develop because of the way he plays.
 
DickTrickle

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Drakurii_sl said:
Go back and check Hardens stats in the finals, the dude never showed up...his play was fucking horrid

James Harden 2011-12 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com
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Yeah, he was bad in the finals, but not the previous series. And let's remember his role was a lot different then. He did more jump shooting and less driving and still usually played second or third fiddle in the offense. Not because he couldn't be more but because the team really didn't give him the opportunity. Some players just aren't as good playing more off the ball or not always being aggressive.

Still, it is worth noting his playoff runs in Houston have both been bad, so he definitely hasn't had a "carrying the team" playoff moment yet.
 
Convo

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Curry winning it. As he should.

Any San antonio fans out there? What are the odds Lenoard walks after the season? Assuming my sixers draft Mudai, he'd compete us if we were able to give him a max deal, which we would be. Spurs just have the advantage so he'd really have to want out and even then it's slim odds.
 
Ambiturner

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Muurloen_sl said:
The Beard scores, a career high, 51 pointsin a 115-111 win against the Kings. This his is 2nd game this season, and career, that he scored over 50 points or more. I wonder if he gets the majority of 2nd place votes, with a few 1st place votes sprinkled in, and Westbrook takes away enough 1st place votes from Steph Curry, would it be enough Harden win the MVP? That would actually be quite awesome.
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Seems more likely that Westbrook would be taking MVP votes away from Harden
 
Slaythe

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popsicledeath_sl said:
I remember a lot of people saying Harden was a good 3rd option but not star material. Imagine Harden carrying OKC while Durant was injured, letting Durant take more time to heal and be ready for a playoff run which would have been more impressive than what Harden is doing in Houston or what Westbrook kinda did for OKC. Westbrook should have never been in the MVP discussion. Harden definitely should be. Curry should win, though. Curry has that magnifying effect where he makes his team better, and the better team makes him better, and he in turn makes the team even better, etc. Harden just makes the Rockets better, and that's that. Yeah, he carries them, but not the same way. Curry wins MVP, Harden offensive player of the year.
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If you go back to that thread you'll find me saying Harden is better than Westbrook and then everyone calling me a moron.
 
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