NBA 2015 Playoffs Thread

Ambiturner

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I don't know how much the Spurs were a "juggernaut" last year. They steamrolled the Heat, but odds are the top 3-4 teams in the West would have done the same. I honestly don't think the Spurs were any worse this year, but it's just such a dog fight every year in the playoffs for the West while the East is always a cake walk.

Out of curiosity, Slaythe, how do you think Lebron would be thought of today if he had played his whole career in the western conference?
 

Slaythe

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I don't know how much the Spurs were a "juggernaut" last year. They steamrolled the Heat, but odds are the top 3-4 teams in the West would have done the same. I honestly don't think the Spurs were any worse this year, but it's just such a dog fight every year in the playoffs for the West while the East is always a cake walk.

Out of curiosity, Slaythe, how do you think Lebron would be thought of today if he had played his whole career in the western conference?
Juggernaut maybe poor wording. Still, the Spurs played incredible those finals. While the top western teams probably had a decent shot last year, no one in the league was going to match up against just how well San Antonio played during that stretch. They got hot, their roleplayers stepped up huge and Kawhi emerged as one of the best two way players in the league.

LeBron in the western conference? Well, I'm of the opinion that the regular season matters. I think players do take games off but that happens far less than people think. There are less awful teams than competent ones and it takes a game plan and effort to win most nights in the NBA.

So with the assumption that he plays in far less finals games in that conference, I still view him the same. I think championships define a players legacy, not how good they actually are. We debate Chris Paul all the time on these forums, but I really can't imagine anyone who has actually watched him play doesn't see greatness with how he can manage a game, yet still score with such efficiency. Is he worse than Isiah Thomas because he doesn't have two rings. Is John Stockton not one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game? Does the Clippers max salary and awful bench not play any sort of role in how you view CP3's success?

Basketball is definitely the most individual of any of the popular sports but it's still a team game. LeBron has taken two awful teams to the finals and gets called a loser for not closing things out rather than what we really should be thinking, that his supreme play carried lesser talent that far only to ultimately lose to superior teams.

Kind of rambling here. Teams win championships. I don't really care about that when making my personal determination on how good a player is. I certainly recognize what winning does to someone's legacy as a whole though.
 

popsicledeath

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Thanks for calling me a retard though!
No problem. Calls em as I sees em.

Over and over I see others here and analysts and retired players and current players agreeing that Lebron is the better individual talent, the better player, the best in the world, yet they would choose Kobe for a TEAM because it's a TEAM sport and on a TEAM Kobe is the more valuable player, the better asset, the player who will give you the better chance at winning.

Agree to disagree? You just equated talent to stats. Yet when people post stats showing Lebron isn't as winning as his super star counterpart... err, fuck those stats. Only the stats supporting Lebron's individual performances prove anything, and only individual performance is the measure of a player despite it being a team game.

2-4 in the Finals. And those 2 wins were after declaring he'd get 7 or whatever. And those 2 wins were on teams the colluded to buy through free agency. And those 2 wins were by stacking a team in Miami when he couldn't get shit down on his own terms, on his home court, with the team he'd struggled to make something and fail over and over. And even then there were hilarious stories coming out credit everyone BUT Lebron for winning, that other players were the heart and soul of the team, the motivators, the ones doing the dirty work and pushing people in practice and teaching other players, etc, etc. Lebron was the great player who showed up, reaped all the rewards, patted himself on the back, agreed with everyone that he was the best player in the world, and then still managed to not live up to even his own expectations in Miami.

So, yeah, of course you don't care about attitude or culture of winning or playing team ball. I don't blame you. Our current sports culture is about as ignorant and dumb as ever. People don't understand why the Warriors were the best TEAM and why the best player on the best team should win MVP when other players on worse teams had better stats. People don't understand how or why Tim Duncan and the Spurs could keep winning when they didn't even have a max player, and weren't bringing in a ton of superstar free agents.

Lebron symbolizes everything wrong in current NBA culture, and again I'll agree he's the best individual player, but just as much a distraction and just as detrimental to his team and the NBA as he is a benefit... if you care about things like good team basketball and winning and not just raking up stats and patting yourself on the back.
 

Convo

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Yea. I don't know. I just don't see Lebron in such a negative light. Certainly not throughout the season when he was trying his best to get love and Irvin going early in games. It's not that he's selfish, he's just the best player by far and the teams best shot to win. He found a lot of wide open guys this series and they missed a lot of open shots. He's a smart player and uses every aspect of the game to his advantage. Including dives.

He's going to make a great coach one day
 

Man0warr

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Why do people compare Lebron to Kobe and MJ? Dude would obviously rather setup his team mates than dominate a game - he's more Magic than anything. Obviously he has been forced to on these Cav teams but it's not his preferred style. Even in Highschool he was the same way.
 

Gilgamel

A Man Chooses....
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Yea. I don't know. I just don't see Lebron in such a negative light.
It's because you're not retarded. Yes he's a drama queen. Yes he plays up how tired he is and cares too much about his brand. But on the basketball court he's the best all around player we've seen since Jordan and he makes everyone around him better, as proven by the huge win jumps every time he goes somewhere and massively precipitous declines when he leaves. If you love basketball you should love watching him play. If you swap he and Steph's teams in that series it's a sweep 100 times out of 100. Hating on him as a player is objectively impossible. No, he's not perfect but his all around skills and his passer's mentality are truly unique among players who can score like he can.
 

Slaythe

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He doesn't yell at his teammates enough or slap them on the ass when they do well. Forget about the massive production increase those teammates see when he's on the court. Selfish, individual player if I've ever seen one.
 

DickTrickle

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Or leak information to the media to undermine other players. Lebron should definitely do that. Also, if he ever plays with a monster 7 foot 350 pound center, he should definitely help push him out of town to prove he can do it by himself.
 

Alex

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We should talk more about how awesome the Warriors are and the amazing season they just concluded.
 

DickTrickle

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Just imagine how differently Kerr's season almost went. Dodged a nuclear bomb in avoiding the Knicks.
 

Gilgamel

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Just imagine how differently Kerr's season almost went. Dodged a nuclear bomb in avoiding the Knicks.
Sad thing is he's a good enough coach that it would have been bad for the Knicks long term, because I bet he drags that terrible team to the edge of the playoffs instead of the top of the lottery.

Of course they'll probably blow the pick, so the competent coach is probably worth the worse pick.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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We should talk more about how awesome the Warriors are and the amazing season they just concluded.
Great team but I do wonder how it would have played out with love and Irvin. Who's knows if Thompson and Delly would have had the chance to build thier identity without them being hurt but I can't rule out the coach figuring out the matchups to favor his team.

Still a very fun team to watch that plays the team game very well. Can't ask for more from the NBA then that.

Let's talk NBA draft! Embiid had a set back on foot. Wonder how my sixers respond if one of those bigs fall.
 

Alex

Still a Music Elitist
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I don't think the series would have been that much different. Irving and Love would have downgraded the Cavs defense considerably. I think Kerr would have outcoached Blatt anyway over the course of seven games.
 

Zzen

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Wearing an orange fedora while speaking hypothetically about whether it would be better to not make the playoffs after losing your 4th Finals.

JustLebronThings.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I don't think the series would have been that much different. Irving and Love would have downgraded the Cavs defense considerably. I think Kerr would have outcoached Blatt anyway over the course of seven games.
I think we might find out next year.
 

Pharazon

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I think we might find out next year.
I hope so. Warriors could potentially be even better having the title experience under their belts now and another year for the young guys. Maybe more likely though one or two of their guys get injured and they don't make it back. So difficult to get through the west...

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