Neverwinter: PC
- Thread starter qwertyqweqwertwqert
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The problem then basically comes down to this is the wrong forum for this game. Move it out of MMO discussion and into "other games".
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lolwut? "I could tell you everything I don't like about the game but you'd just counter it by saying 'well, then don't play it!' dur" no shit? In other news, the sky is blue. also rofl "consensus", get a clue.
This game is as much an MMO as World of Warcraft is. If you'd like to move everything besides Everquest 1 and Eve Online to "Other games" discussion then sure, otherwise there's no difference.
Caliane
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well. As I noted. the lines are blurred. Instancing.
We have Path of Exile in the other games. and the Marvel ARPG here. Functionally, nearly identical. Shared towns, that are instanced. While the marvel one does have shared open areas as well. But thats hardly Massive, or persistent.
Neverwinter here. Shared persistent town, but everything else is instanced or instanced. Open areas are only like 15-30 players or so. Never did a count.
Gw2 also gets sharded, although has higher caps I think. we know wvw is like 100 per faction. so, up to 300. Lions arch is probably 300 or so. dunno about other zones.
Then persistent, perm worlds like Rift, with instanced dungeons/pvp.
And the mythical persistent perm worlds with no instances. (dont think any fit that bill currently)
There''s really a slope there. no clear line.
the games that focus more on the social aspect beyond the individual 2-4 player game get put here I guess?
look at that Quest for epic loot. that game is played like a single player game for the most part. its hardly even MP, other then the fact you raid other players castles and they raid yours.
While L4D or Borderlands, dont really have focus on the social element beyond the individual co-op of the game.
I would be almost willing to call Neverwinter a 5 player co-op.
I don't feel my social experiance in NWN is much differant then Path of Exile. And definitely not much from the Marvel mmo. solo 95% of the shared world experience. And dungeon finder or lfg for dungeons.... not much MMO there.
Maybe we should coin a new phrase of these McMMO's?
social multiplayer?
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Eve Online. Single server persistent perm world with zero instancing whatsoever.
If Instancing is how you delineate MMO vs non than Eve is the only real MMO ever made, Everquest and UO and everything else also had instances called servers. In it's hey day EQ had 50 different instances running and had less players then than Eve does now.
Open areas in Neverwinter are more like 50, the cap is higher than EQ2, so if Neverwinter a social Multiplayer game than so is EQ2, but Neverwinter is closer to the MMO side than EQ2 was. I could be mistaken but I don't think Chat was persistent across instances in EQ2 but they are in Neverwinter so that's another "more MMO-y" check for Neverwinter. Another example SWTOR. Same thing as EQ2, and many of it's zone had a smaller population cap before instancing than Neverwinter.
All this is arbitrary as fuck considering games instance themselves based on how large their open world zones are and how many players they can support. It's more organic than just instancing the entire thing into servers from the get go, World of Warcraft had what, 300+ servers running at some point. half the time your zone is overpopulated as fuck (leveling up) or it's a ghost town. and then the completely jarring yet required server merges and splits and bullshit to try to fix populations after the fact.
You group far more in Neverwinter than in any of those games I just mentioned (EQ2, SWTOR, WOW) and they are just as instanced as Neverwinter if not more so, so where is this distinction coming from? just curious. I'm completely fine with calling WoW a Social multiplayer McMMO. The only game that's more MMO-y than Neverwinter (other than Eve Online of course) would be original Everquest in that you had to group from the get go. Well melee players did at least.
I just don't get it. My social experiences in Neverwinter are far more engaging and MMO-y than any of the other equally instanced games I just mentioned. It sounds silly as they're nearly diametrically opposed but this game plays more like original Everquest than anything else. It has things like class inter-dependency and pulling and coordination and people have to know how to play their class and the game is difficult enough where it's very hard to carry bad players through content. a modicum of, I don't know, skill? I guess is required to play. (MMO skill is basically just tactical awareness and game knowledge but this game also has a minimum twitch skill requirement too). Groups have to communicate and explain shit to people, sure it's voice usually as the game has built in voice chat and guilds use ts3/vent/mumble/whatev but in PUGs a lot of people don't use voice so you end up sitting around typing in group chat explaining encounters and boss strategies and etc.
As an action mmo theres no "downtime" like EQ where you sit around and talk about the weather waiting for mana regen or mob respawn but because you're already having to talk to your group anyway the communication is there and people do just talk about shit while waiting for DD chest or AFK ppl to come back or whatever. If you are not terrible people /friend you and hit you up when you login asking you to do dungeon x or whatever and you end up grouping with a lot of the same people outside of just your guild runs.
So since there's essentially one person who cares about this game is it really worth any discussion at all? Can we just delete the thread
Caliane
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yeah. largely.
I did skip some zones when I leveled though. underdark, and.. i forget, one other. There is definitely way more exp then needed.
And there is pvp and foundry. Although, as I complained a while ago, neither get you craft materials or runes.
The guys that are arguing that this game isn't an MMO are just wrong. Period. Comparing it to Path of Exile/Diablo? Those are (online) action RPGs. Instancing has nothing to do with it, since it's just a mechanism for population control / server load. I'm with Sylas on this one. As for whether the game is good, I'll withhold judgement until I'm 60 trying to figure out what to do with my toon, which is where many MMO games fail.
Caliane
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I think you missed the point.
How is Path of Exile not an mmo?
persistent economy, shared towns, chat is global, but instanced as well. etc. players are effective all in one shared world, that just gets instanced for individual play. Most of us are even waiting for a FFA enter any game at any time league. But you can sort of do that with making your games public already.
If the marvel one is an mmo, then so is path of exile. And in the same terms, marvel mmo socially is very similar to the marvel mmo.
The point we were making was there is no clear line between what is an mmo and what is a multiplayer game really. MP games have largely gained massive elements while many mmos have been getting smaller and smaller shards.
In terms of how many players are in any give map, this is closer to the marvel "mmo" then it is Rift or Guildwars. Is how many players are in any given map even what defines one? (consider browser mmos, which dont even have standard maps) Is it simply a global economy that defines one? If its a persistent global economy that defines mmo, well, ALOT of games are mmos nowadays aren't they. and we could argue even D2 was. (which is a fairly valid arguement imo)
How is Path of Exile not an mmo?
persistent economy, shared towns, chat is global, but instanced as well. etc. players are effective all in one shared world, that just gets instanced for individual play. Most of us are even waiting for a FFA enter any game at any time league. But you can sort of do that with making your games public already.
If the marvel one is an mmo, then so is path of exile. And in the same terms, marvel mmo socially is very similar to the marvel mmo.
The point we were making was there is no clear line between what is an mmo and what is a multiplayer game really. MP games have largely gained massive elements while many mmos have been getting smaller and smaller shards.
In terms of how many players are in any give map, this is closer to the marvel "mmo" then it is Rift or Guildwars. Is how many players are in any given map even what defines one? (consider browser mmos, which dont even have standard maps) Is it simply a global economy that defines one? If its a persistent global economy that defines mmo, well, ALOT of games are mmos nowadays aren't they. and we could argue even D2 was. (which is a fairly valid arguement imo)
I didn't realize a thread on the game Neverwinter was a discussion on the overall classification known as MMORPG or MMOG, but I'll humor you a little. There are some things that, in my mind, make them different. First/Third person point of view with wasd for movement vs top-down click-based movement, for one. PoE obviously comes from Diablo and when you look at the history of the game it started as an action (loose rpg) game online. Whereas Neverwinter (from feel) harkens back to EQ/UO and ultimately DiKu MUDs.
I admit the lines have been blurred due to improved internet and technology, but it's still there for me. Guild Wars would have to be removed from MMO land as well if that were the case. I have no idea about the Marvel mmo (or whatever) since I've never played it.
I admit the lines have been blurred due to improved internet and technology, but it's still there for me. Guild Wars would have to be removed from MMO land as well if that were the case. I have no idea about the Marvel mmo (or whatever) since I've never played it.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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There's no clear definition anymore for what's an MMO(RPG) and what isnt. There never was anyway but the first MMOs didnt have instancing to blur the lines with multiplayer, and older multiplayer games didnt have any persistant secions usually. Back then GW1 made it a big deal to not be grouped in with an MMO but it probably would be considered one today.
I draw the line at having a persistant world that is shared by many players at the same where you as the player have little or no control over who else is in that region with you. having servers/shards ala EQ, WoW, or UO still leaves it as an MMO, while a shared town lobby but otherwise entirely instanced for just your group is Coop-multiplayer or whatever you want to call it, or PvP-multiplayer. GW1, any of the Diablo games, pretty much all shooters i know besides planetside (tribes maybe too? havent played).
It's not easy to apply that reasoning in some cases but apparently Marvel online would be an MMO then (doesnt feel like it anyway) and the Hex 'MMO' certainly isnt one. So before this thread is moved Draegan might as well move the Marvel online , Star Citizen and Hex threads.
I dont know how GW2 figures into this, I see the overflow server tech as similar to the additional instances of overcrowded zones that EQ2 had in 2004, and you can have 100+ players in each zone before you go to overflow in GW2. MMO enough I think, maybe you expect more? And PoE isnt MMO to me simply because there's nothing persistant about it besides the towns, its identical to GW1 in that regard (so like I said above, opnions might differ).
I draw the line at having a persistant world that is shared by many players at the same where you as the player have little or no control over who else is in that region with you. having servers/shards ala EQ, WoW, or UO still leaves it as an MMO, while a shared town lobby but otherwise entirely instanced for just your group is Coop-multiplayer or whatever you want to call it, or PvP-multiplayer. GW1, any of the Diablo games, pretty much all shooters i know besides planetside (tribes maybe too? havent played).
It's not easy to apply that reasoning in some cases but apparently Marvel online would be an MMO then (doesnt feel like it anyway) and the Hex 'MMO' certainly isnt one. So before this thread is moved Draegan might as well move the Marvel online , Star Citizen and Hex threads.
I dont know how GW2 figures into this, I see the overflow server tech as similar to the additional instances of overcrowded zones that EQ2 had in 2004, and you can have 100+ players in each zone before you go to overflow in GW2. MMO enough I think, maybe you expect more? And PoE isnt MMO to me simply because there's nothing persistant about it besides the towns, its identical to GW1 in that regard (so like I said above, opnions might differ).
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but it's more than EQ2 and SWTOR. Honestly I don't remember much about GW's open world zones but I never saw anyone in them so i'm not sure it's less than GW.
If you're defining MMOs by how many people are in open world zones and how often you group Neverwinter is more MMO than basically every game mentioned.
Mates anyone still playing this that can confirm the new Moon Elf Race with the 59.99$ pack?
Is it like the Drow pack have to buy it?
Cheers.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07...s-august-22nd/
Is it like the Drow pack have to buy it?
Cheers.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07...s-august-22nd/
Yea i think you have to buy it.
Been playing casually for about a week and i don't understand all the hate the game seems to get, its fairly enjoyable.
Only problem i see is the Zen shit. Other than that its not the worst mmo out there and its far from the best, but its fun to play.
Been playing casually for about a week and i don't understand all the hate the game seems to get, its fairly enjoyable.
Only problem i see is the Zen shit. Other than that its not the worst mmo out there and its far from the best, but its fun to play.
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Yeah tons of hate for this game for all the wrong reasons. There's tons of shit wrong about this game, the p2w zen store advertisements being the tip of the iceberg.
But for all it's faults the game is fun to play and it has the best combat system if you're interested in group based PVE/dungeon crawling style gameplay.
But for all it's faults the game is fun to play and it has the best combat system if you're interested in group based PVE/dungeon crawling style gameplay.