NFL 2016 Offseason Thread - Fins' Quest to Defend Their Crown

moontayle_sl said:

You must have extremely poor reading comprehension because I took two minutes, typed in "NFL mock draft January 2016" to the Googles and all but one link on the first page that stemmed from January had Goff as the first QB off the board to Cleveland. The one that didn't have him had Lynch. Goff has been projected high since people started considering the draft at all.

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But there's a difference between being projected high and being "franchise QB" material. There's QB desperate teams every year, and whoever the top one is, they're going to go relatively high. These aren't RB's we're talking about. Everything I heard through the end of the regular season was this year fell far behind last year on the QB front. When I said mid first to 2nd for the top 2-3 QB's, I'm thinking as far as best player available. QB position always increases value because of the desperate need certain teams have.

That's the thing, Bradford isn't great by any means but he's at least somewhat capable IF he can stay healthy. So it really seems like a reach for Philly, who could have tried to find someone developmental in the middle of the round or later, or waited for next year rather than give up a bevy of picks for a shot in the dark. Not "gambling" by going all-in on one player that is basically an unknown and statistically more likely to be mediocre or outright bad than a franchise changer.

Bradford's contract is fine.

The retarded one is Chase Daniel. If you have the #2 pick as the backup and therefore getting backup reps, you're paying your number 3 QB $7 million to do nothing. If you sit the #2 pick as your number 3 QB, you've just spent an insane amount of picks for a guy to not really do anything.

As has been mentioned, in the NFL in this era, a top 16 pick is generally expected to start immediately (and you can maybe argue a first round pick period). The Eagles are spending WAY more than just a top 16 pick for a guy we're expecting to sit on the bench for the next two years? That's franchise crippling.

Merrith_sl said:

Except I was never defending this move. From the start I was looking at the $50M guaranteed like it was the worst thing I ever ate in my life. I'm not going to sit here and say it's not a massive upgrade to our secondary this year, but realistically there's almost no way he exceeds this deal, he'll be lucky to come anywhere close to playing up to its value.

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Giants GM said overpaying is just how it is in FA, thus, Vernon Olivier's massive contract. Somehow it's a seller's market. I get there aren't a lot of blue chip players that come available and EVERYONE needs cornerbacks, quarterbacks, pass rushers etc. Just sucks for the teams that get stuck overpaying, well, for my Saints anyway... Here's looking at you Jairus Byrd. I heard my Saints made a play for Norman but honestly I don't think Corner is our biggest issue. We've got Keenan Louis and Delvin Breaux looks like he can play well. If we have somebody that can cover nickle we should be good. Front 7 on D and OG is where my real concerns are.

And Moon, I wasn't the ONLY one that said this year's QB prospects were middle first round to later rounds so you can climb off my balls. My point is, EVERY YEAR the quarterbacks get better and better as we near the draft because of the media hype. I think Winston last year was the only time I've seen Mayock not dick ride the current year's QB class as hard as the rest of the media. I'm STILL laughing about Ponder and Gabbert...

I'm just refuting your statement that no one had these QBs going high in the draft. Opinions change but I've always seen Goff going high, his value has been pretty solid, perception-wise. What's amazing to me is that after all these pro days, the combine, private workouts, scouts are now saying Wentz/Goff are better prospects than Winston/Marietta.

moontayle_sl said:

What's amazing to me is that after all these pro days, the combine, private workouts, scouts are now saying Wentz/Goff are better prospects than Winston/Marietta.

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All of those scouts have been anonymous. To me this sounds like the media hyping these QBs up even when everyone really knows they would be inferior prospects to both Winston/Mariota. Both Winston/Mariota have better overall college stats, they both won a Heisman, and both got to a national championship. Hell, Wentz had something like 600 career passing attempts in college. Winston/Mariota had nearly 3x that amount each.

I may be homering a little with how well Jameis played last year, but he and Mariota were very deserving of their 1/2 drafted positions. Wentz/Goff? If teams weren't desperate (or dumb) they would be late first round picks in a normal draft

Not to nitpick but Winston only played two years in college, 851 attempts. Mariota had 1167 though.

Not sold on Wentz at all he seems like a less elite Flacco. But Goff? Kid seems way more talented than either Winston or Mariota.

Again. That redzone stat for his career of 56tds and like 1 int insane when you are throwing highly contested balls in the endzone.

moontayle_sl said:

I'm just refuting your statement that no one had these QBs going high in the draft. Opinions change but I've always seen Goff going high, his value has been pretty solid, perception-wise. What's amazing to me is that after all these pro days, the combine, private workouts, scouts are now saying Wentz/Goff are better prospects than Winston/Marietta.

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Whoa, who has actually said they're better than Winston/Mariota?

Also people need to qualify their "ranked highly" statements on these two. It's one thing to say Goff was rated as a top 10 pick, it's quite another for Goff/Wentz to be locks for #1 and #2, with TWO teams trading hauls of picks to move up to those spots to get them.

Winston was a beast though. He single handedly won FSU a national championship.

He was a deserved number 1 especially when you look at someone like Cam Newton whos value didnt really take off until his 3rd campaign. Winston was a servicable rookie and will be a drastically better player in year 3 imo.

Last years QBs coming out were the new age type athletic dual threats whereas this year its back to the Andrew Luck prototypical QB with Goff and Wentz.

Winston was impressive last year as a rookie. Obviously some ups and downs, but management knew who was responsible for the improvement in Tampa's record when they canned Lovie.

Convo_sl said:

Booms and Busts :: Carson Wentz Scouting Report

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Just know that when you hear "With the first pick in the 2016 NFL draft the Los Angeles Rams select Jared Goff" that means the Eagles will select a bust with the second pick.

Congrats on making a statement that's made by someone with just about every QB who's comes out in the top 5 picks in a draft

Convo_sl said:

Congrats on making a statement that's made by someone with just about every QB who's comes out in the top 5 picks in a draft

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And there's been articles like this popping up all week:

Trading up for quarterbacks remains a risky proposition | ProFootballTalk

As noted by Adam Jahns of the Chicago Sun-Times, since 2000 there have been 14 instances of a team trading up to draft a quarterback in the first round, with most of them going horribly wrong.

While the Giants (Eli Manning, 2004) and Ravens (Joe Flacco, 2008) have won Super Bowls with those quarterbacks, most of the rest were busts.

A few such as Michael Vick (Falcons, 2001), Jay Cutler (Broncos, 2006) and Mark Sanchez (Jets, 2009) have had some degrees of success, but the rest of the list should give you chills: Kyle Boller (Ravens, 2003), J.P. Losman (Bills, 2004), Jason Campbell (Washington, 2005), Brady Quinn (Browns, 2007), Josh Freeman (Buccaneers, 2009), Tim Tebow (Broncos, 2010), Blaine Gabbert (Jaguars, 2011), Robert Griffin III (Washington, 2012) and Johnny Manziel (Browns, 2014).

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Just face it, history and stats are against you. This deal will probably suck for the Eagles. Its better if you just come to terms with that now, and if it turns out better then you will be happily surprised.

Famm_sl said:

And there's been articles like this popping up all week:

Trading up for quarterbacks remains a risky proposition | ProFootballTalk



Just face it, history and stats are against you. This deal will probably suck for the Eagles. Its better if you just come to terms with that now, and if it turns out better then you will be happily surprised.

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Have you actually been reading my posts? When did I ever say it wasn't a huge risk? I've always said that, I just understand why they decided to do it and posted the reasons.

Convo_sl said:

Have you actually been reading my posts? When did I ever say it wasn't a huge risk? I've always said that, I just understand why they decided to do it and posted the reasons.

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When you want full on INSIDER information for Philadelphia's draft plan it absolutely, positively has to be Convo!

Or you can just use your brain

Convo_sl said:

Or you can just use your brain

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ok since you're simple... I'll spell it out.

It's fucking impossible to TRULY understand wtf is going on in any draft room. You can speculate but there's no fucking way you actually know wtf you are talking about. Call it speculation, call it talking out your ass but don't come in here trying to portray your bullshit as gospel. Nobody here is stupid enough to believe you actually know wtf you're talking about.