NFL 2016 - <whatever Tony is doing>

Merrith

Merrith

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Jozu said:
Uber do you even watch football? Brown runs great routes but its pitch and catch with him and Ben. They also run a ton of screen plays and he gets a lot of YAC. The Bengals and Dalton rely on Green beating man coverage to make plays.

You are fucking cooked.
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No, he's really not. Not only does the common sense of everyone else who "watches football" think you're wrong, but I defer to this article from PFF.

The NFL’s 10 most unstoppable forces

#2 on the list. Saying they have to rely on Green's route running to beat man to man is dumb. Not that he runs bad routes, far from it. But guys like Green and Julio use their height/size (more in Jones case for size) to beat man on man than their route running (at least when compared to 5'10 Brown).
 
Jozu

Jozu

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I get what your saying its valid, but my point was that Roethlisberger and Browns rapport is more geared toward timing and big plays with Antonio getting lost behind the defense and burning them for big plays in stride, or catching a ball in the flat n breaking one.

AJ and Julio are bigger and "post up" smaller defenders to get theirs, but Green is a very crafty reciever and his subtle moves off the line and ability to create space in the secondary is what makes him special. The size and speed add to this, not define him as a player. Jones is more of a jump ball reciever in that sense but Uber was comparing Green to fucking Desean Jackson and was making him sound like a liability or something.

Thats way more off base than me claiming Green runs some of the best routes in football. My comment is more rooted in reality than his, give me a break.
 
Genjiro

Genjiro

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Every once in a blue moon Ben scrambles around and they do some shit like that, but 9.5/10 times its Brown getting open on timing routes and doing something after the catch. AB isnt 6'5'' and can just jump ball people or dominate them with physicality like Aj Green does. Not that Green is a bad route runner, but AB relies on it Green doesnt.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Jozu said:
I get what your saying its valid, but my point was that Roethlisberger and Browns rapport is more geared toward timing and big plays with Antonio getting lost behind the defense and burning them for big plays in stride, or catching a ball in the flat n breaking one.

AJ and Julio are bigger and "post up" smaller defenders to get theirs, but Green is a very crafty reciever and his subtle moves off the line and ability to create space in the secondary is what makes him special. The size and speed add to this, not define him as a player. Jones is more of a jump ball reciever in that sense but Uber was comparing Green to fucking Desean Jackson and was making him sound like a liability or something.

Thats way more off base than me claiming Green runs some of the best routes in football. My comment is more rooted in reality than his, give me a break.
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I was mainly focusing on the idea that AB was NOT the best route runner in football. He is. Saying it's only about big plays getting lost behind the defense doesn't take into account the fact that he's led the NFL in receptions the last 2 years. He's not a one trick pony.

As for Green and Julio, I hope I made it clear that while both of them use (and are able to use) their height where AB can't, Julio definitely more of a big body that can go up and physically just overpower guys to bring down balls. Green is great, and a great route runner. But AB is the best route runner.

Receiving stats since 2014: http://www.pro-football-reference.c...ft_pos=s&draft_pos=db&draft_pos=k&draft_pos=p

1st in receptions, 2nd in yards, tied 1st in TD's.
 
Ambiturner

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That's why the NFL should stop being so anti-fan and show games from the all-22 perspective. It would be a lot easier to judge their route running if we could actually see them running their routes
 
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Kreugen

Kreugen

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I think there's a whole team of sport scientists working to discover how Brown so often seems to be left wide fucking open.
 
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Jozu

Jozu

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Green being a better route runner than Brown can be shot down by highlighting his number of receptions? They have similar target numbers so maybe your right.

Again its kind of subjective but Brown is probably better at working the sidelines and staying in bounds, but Green has more red zone success and stretches the field more.

The height disparity is probably the biggest factor in your argument as Brown is 6 inches shorter. QB play is very important too, Dalton is no Big Ben. Either way I like Green and might be biased but they are the two best receivers either way.
 
Jozu

Jozu

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I started this conversation by confirming the Steelers have the best WR and RB in the league.

Merrith presented some good evidence as to why Brown might be a better route runner, but I stand by you being an idiot for comparing Green to Jackson and basically calling him a pussy. You're the one being a cunt, you add nothing to discussions and criticize people you dont like on the internet.
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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Jozu said:
Green being a better route runner than Brown can be shot down by highlighting his number of receptions? They have similar target numbers so maybe your right.

Again its kind of subjective but Brown is probably better at working the sidelines and staying in bounds, but Green has more red zone success and stretches the field more.

The height disparity is probably the biggest factor in your argument as Brown is 6 inches shorter. QB play is very important too, Dalton is no Big Ben. Either way I like Green and might be biased but they are the two best receivers either way.
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No, the idea that his deal is only getting lost behind the D while Ben scrambles for big plays gets shot down by pointing out he leads the entire league in receptions. I mean, Ben isn't scrambling around every play.

Also how are you measuring red zone success? Brown's TD total kind of murders Green's. I don't see how that's possible if Green is stretching the field more than Brown does and having more red zone success.

QB play is legit, not a soul is going to claim Dalton is the equivalent to Big Ben. Not sure if it accounts for 100 receptions, 1k yards, and 9 TD's over 3 years, but that's why we still rank Green up there with Julio Jones and Brown as far as best overall. Just don't think anyone is there with Brown's route running.
 
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Jozu

Jozu

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See, you're even petty. I wasnt talking about starting the discussion itself, I was referring to my initial remarks on the subject. I wasnt taking anything away from Brown, I said hes the best, I simply gave an opinion on Green and what another WR might do better.

Instead of presenting solid evidence to the contrary like Merrith, you tried to devalue my argument by throwing Green under the bus as a player. Keep taking the low road, it suits you well.
 
Alex

Alex

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Ambiturner said:
That's why the NFL should stop being so anti-fan and show games from the all-22 perspective. It would be a lot easier to judge their route running if we could actually see them running their routes
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I've been wanting this view for years. The Madden video game view. Sure, it's harder to judge first downs. But I'd much rather see what's actually happening 12 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
 
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Uber Uberest

Uber Uberest

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No you said I offer nothing to the discussion, when I literally started it. But in all honesty Green does suck, he can't wait to fumble in a big game, or disappear in a big game. But dipssy do dunk a roo he caught a Hail Mary vs the Browns, weeeeeeeee. He sucks.
 
Alex

Alex

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Uber Uberest said:
No you said I offer nothing to the discussion, when I literally started it. But in all honesty Green does suck, he can't wait to fumble in a big game, or disappear in a big game. But dipssy do dunk a roo he caught a Hail Mary vs the Browns, weeeeeeeee. He sucks.
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You're an idiot.
 
jooka

jooka

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Super exciting Thursday game! This will turn the plummeting ratings around I tell ya. Christ doubt I even flip over to look at the score.
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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jooka said:
Super exciting Thursday game! This will turn the plummeting ratings around I tell ya. Christ doubt I even flip over to look at the score.
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Eh...South is kind of in play since Watt is out probably rest of the year and Osweiler turning out to be a wasted $72M
 
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