Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Convo_sl said:

I didn't want to play with you anyway /pout

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Okay, I guess we can go back to shit flinging now since we're obviously done actually engaging.

Faggot.

Skanda_sl said:

Okay, I guess we can go back to shit flinging now since we're obviously done actually engaging.

Faggot.

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Creep

I think we are all bored.

shabushabu_sl said:

I think we are all bored.

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Is that because we're all alt-tabbed oom?

Tenks_sl said:

Is that because we're all alt-tabbed oom?

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Waiting to find a necro to summon our corspes, but they are busy soloing raid bosses.........

I wonder if Brad carries a picture of that in his wallet so he can bust it out and scream 'DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?' at people.

They have passion. I'm optimistic for these guys. I think we see something solid soon from them now that Ben is back and most likely working on PR stuff. I'm giving them 6 more months to show what they have.

zzeris_sl said:

I think some people are mistaking wanting a tough game with this piece of shit. Just as Etchazz/Dumar/whatever said, Pillars was a tough game that was well done and filled a niche. The difference is that it was a well done game created by e reputable company. None of that fits in this thread. I don't care how nice the community manager/whoever guy is, Brad is the one behind the scenes and he's a low talent hack and thief. Maybe someone will make the next game that fills this niche outside of the emulators. It won't happen here and Brad won't be involved. It's really pretty simple.

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I completely agree with you there. Like I've stated several times, I think there is a market for an old school MMO, but I am not naive enough to believe that Pantheon will be that game.

zzeris_sl said:

And I agree with your opinion as well. The problem is finding a group talented and realistic enough to make a throw-back MMO while knowing it has limited appeal(won't make triple A type money). We still haven't found that group but seeing start ups like the one for Crowfall gives hope that one might be found. One actual point of favor for this happening is the failure of the big studios to have another massive hit. Sure, they make solid money off TESO, Rift, etc but the benefit of trying to beat Blizzard at it's own game just isn't there. I think they have mainly realized that.

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With the advent of games like DarkSouls, PoEternity, Wastland and such, there is proof that there is a market for a) more hardcore experiences b) old school RPGs . Also, PC revenues are beating consoles now. One of the reasons we have not seen another Vanguard or Eq is the fact that funding was going heavy into consoles and toward casual gaming.. With the points above, there is hopefully enough evidence to see the gap in the market and we get one, from Brad's group or otherwise as it seems it is almost time.

Skanda_sl said:

Medding wasn't tedious? Sorry guys, alt-tab for ten minutes the cleric is oom.

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Gestalt. Trying to break down games by picking and choosing individual aspects and parts of those games never works. The value of each individual aspect of a game can only truly be judged when viewed through the lens of how that feature contributed to the game as a greater whole. The question isn't was meditating (or slow travel, or harsh death penalties, or corpse runs) tedious. When viewed as an isolated feature, of course all of those things I mentioned are very tedious. The question is whether (and how) they contributed in a meaningful way to the entirety of the game that was EQ.

Can you alter or remove certain features of a game and retain the game's identity? Sure. I felt pretty ok when they removed the need to stare at a spellbook while medding. But at some point along the way, they removed/altered enough features to cause EQ to lose its identity as the game that a lot of us came to know and love over the years.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. I can't judge individual mechanics? The fuck I can't.

Skanda_sl said:

That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. I can't judge individual mechanics? The fuck I can't.

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Don't get me wrong. Obviously you're free to judge anything you'd like. I'm just saying in my opinion if your judgment ignores a feature's value to the overall gestalt then your judgment has limited usefulness as it relates to the game as a whole.

Medding definitely added to the mystique of EQ you're right. By itself it was just annoying. Combined with the training and the certain death and corpse runs you'd have to endure because of it it was downright retarded. Useless mechanic was useless. It added absolutely nothing to the feel of the game.

Arden_sl said:

I'm just saying in my opinion if your judgment ignores a feature's value to the overall gestalt then your judgment has limited usefulness as it relates to the game as a whole.

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That's awfully judgmental of you dismissing someone for a piece of their opinion without looking at their entire opinion first.

Didn't SWG have medding too?

Skanda_sl said:

That's awfully judgmental of you dismissing someone for a piece of their opinion without looking at their entire opinion first.

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I'm not dismissing you, I'm just suggesting you look at some of those features in another light.

Meditating as a mechanic is an interesting one. I mean staring at a spellbook and it taking up your whole UI is stupid, but the system of limiting your spellcasting is an interesting one, and one that's fun to balance around. DDO does something like this and I found it fun and interesting to make sure I'm casting spells when I really need to cast spells. You also get a sense of satisfaction that as you level you get more capacity.

Medding for 5-10 minutes just to regenerate mana is silly though.

I really liked SojournMUDs system. Each level you gained spell slots. Spells were assigned to specific Circles. So all your level 1-6 spells were Circle I spells and so on and so forth. As you leveling you got extra Circle I slots and Circle II slots etc. By the time you were max level you had more than a dozen slots.

It was a fun "deck building" kind of feature. I wish more games had stuff like that instead of just some kind of combination of stamina/energy/mana/combo point systems.

etchazz_sl said:

I completely agree with you there. Like I've stated several times, I think there is a market for an old school MMO, but I am not naive enough to believe that Pantheon will be that game.

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Depends what you mean by oldschool. There are certainly room for games that are difficult, punishing, high risk vs. reward. I would love to see an MMO that has a high risk vs. reward feature set. What I don't want to see is a game where the risk and reward are centered around tedious mechanics like grinding the same spot for 50 hours. Tedius has no place in any game design. Dropping loot on death, exploring, travel times and everything else have places in games. Just make the gameplay fun and you'll have players.