Lfr or lfd is the equivalent of solo farming odd and end drops. No one considers it actual character progression.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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I truly don't see any significant difference between sitting in an area asking LF cleric as any different than the LFR, LFD tools of later except they are much quicker and more efficient. That was the end goal right? To actually do the content and not just sit around?
Rafterman
Molten Core Raider
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There isn't any. If EQ had had had a group finder most of the people who rail against it would've welcomed it as much as the rest of us. I got lucky with EQ. In the first 5 minutes into the game my brother and I met a husband and wife who we ended up playing with for the next 4 years. We basically had a ready made group at any time. But there were a lot of people who spent the majority of their game time just sitting around waiting to actually get to play, that's not fun or hardcore or better in any way than having a tool that makes it easier to find groups. EQ was a glorified chat room as much as it was game and even though it's to this day my favorite MMO experience, that part of the game isn't something I miss.
Rezz
Mr. Poopybutthole
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No, and that's a dumb question to ask, and even more dumb to use for comparative purposes. If you countered with something sensible, like "do you prefer skipping content you have already seen/experienced/outleveled while traveling to some place you are interested in and people are waiting on you?" and then I could have countered with "yes." And then you can rail about how content is more important than the destination (already seen/experienced/outleveled) and how wasting people's time or making it really inconvenient for them or lower the amount of content they can effectively do is really immersive and that modern games don't let you do that. At which point I would counter with "yes they do, they always have, and you can still do all the stupid tedious nonsense you want for immersion's sake, but it isn't being forced on everyone who has better things to do than wait for the Ocean of Tears boat for the thirtieth time."
But that conversation isn't quite on par with "Do you go on vacation using Google Earth?" so we probably won't have that conversation =\ It would have been relevant to the topic at hand, too, so double whammy.
zzeris/rafter: The difference is that people who think that they were always meeting awesome people while doing tedious shit like waiting for a cleric every time they logged in will say it is different. No real difference, because they can also talk to random people in every game ever while waiting for the queue on their dungeon/raid/whatever to pop. But to -them- it is different, man.
They added one eventually and no one ever used it. I don't know if it's because by that point anyone still playing EQ was only playing with guildmates, or what.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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That's because lfd and lfr are so useless content and reward wise that no one gives a shit. If you want a comparison to wow then compare it to trying to join mythic progression on a server. Reputation probably matters there.
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,100
- 1,073
Yep. Especially late kunark+, the experience of a higher level druid was so vastly different from a higher level cleric. I could basically go anywhere and do anything when I logged on my cleric -- and we had more than a few druids quit because they couldn't get anything going outside of raid times.
Adebisi
Clump of Cells
- 27,680
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More proof that your reputation on a server doesn't mean shit.
Zuljin - Forums - World of Warcraft
Where are the drama threads? Where are the fun discussions and guild rivalries?
Wow server forums used to be drama delux. Now? No one even knows who's on their server outside of their own guild.
No need to. Just sit in your Garrison. Queue up for whatever you need. Ignore group chat. Be a dick all you want! You'll never see these people again.
Zuljin - Forums - World of Warcraft
Where are the drama threads? Where are the fun discussions and guild rivalries?
Wow server forums used to be drama delux. Now? No one even knows who's on their server outside of their own guild.
No need to. Just sit in your Garrison. Queue up for whatever you need. Ignore group chat. Be a dick all you want! You'll never see these people again.
Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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This has always been the discussion, though. Its either log into the game and do content that you want to do right away and jump out of the game as soon as you want - or journey to the content you want to do and get somewhere safe to log out. Both have their obvious drawbacks and you cant say one is better than the other. Joining the game and doing exactly what you want is comparable to League of Legends or something like a FPS to me.
Pre-Plane of Knowledge EverQuest really made you consider the world around you. Remember looking for a class to fill the last spot for your group - You're in the Hole and that dude is all the way in Kedge? You just ended up overlooking him and looking for something else. An evac could either save the day or make you want to beat the shit out of your wizard. The world and its limited travel just made you appreciate things like jboots, Pegasus Cloak and Incarnadine BP. But yet.. at the end of the day, as a grown ass adult - those little nuances give way when that extra 30 minutes of travel could have been used doing something actually fun. LFG tools go along with the time crunched crowd, but a system as good as WoW's would have been highly enjoyable in EQ. Consequences to your actions make for a more immersive game - but I can totally understand why designers have strayed away from them.
Pre-Plane of Knowledge EverQuest really made you consider the world around you. Remember looking for a class to fill the last spot for your group - You're in the Hole and that dude is all the way in Kedge? You just ended up overlooking him and looking for something else. An evac could either save the day or make you want to beat the shit out of your wizard. The world and its limited travel just made you appreciate things like jboots, Pegasus Cloak and Incarnadine BP. But yet.. at the end of the day, as a grown ass adult - those little nuances give way when that extra 30 minutes of travel could have been used doing something actually fun. LFG tools go along with the time crunched crowd, but a system as good as WoW's would have been highly enjoyable in EQ. Consequences to your actions make for a more immersive game - but I can totally understand why designers have strayed away from them.
I'm not defending wow design decisions because they are shitty, but you don't queue up for mythic raiding and ignore everyone.
The community is there you just can't be a scrub if you want to be part of it.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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Just came from doing Kazzak. A guy was joining pick-up raids, and repeatedly pulling Kazzak on the raid that was assembling, until he got kicked and de-zoned.
That's what you get when you have bored people with no accountability.
Different strokes for different folks. In brads defense this game isn't trying to be a wow clone, its filling the niche that people were screaming for when eqnext was getting it's first sneak peeks. Nobody should think this game is going to be a blockbuster success with millions of players.
People wanted a new EQ type game and that's what he wants to do.
Take it for what it's worth, I'm glad someone has the balls to make something so fucking expensive to see little return. In 2015 nobody else is dumb enough to do it and that means without Brad, there might not even be a good mmo ever again. All the wow clones suck and less and less companies are willing to even make these games.
People wanted a new EQ type game and that's what he wants to do.
Take it for what it's worth, I'm glad someone has the balls to make something so fucking expensive to see little return. In 2015 nobody else is dumb enough to do it and that means without Brad, there might not even be a good mmo ever again. All the wow clones suck and less and less companies are willing to even make these games.
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
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There is a better solution, the Premade Group finder in WoW.
At the beginning of WoD in WoW pre Mythic there was a lively Premade group scene. Basically there were three groups of players all sorted by time zones. I was playing 9 PM - 6 AM and there were a lot of people that I got to know because I would see them over and over again, across weeks. It got to the point where people could vouch for each other as an asset to a PUG Heroic raid. Premade groups can be toxic but the beauty is that you can leave and both sides will build a reputation. THey are also some of the most demanding groups I ahve played with in terms of performance. There is no loyalty and you are only as good as your last pull.
As a result I am all for difficult content organized and managed the same way. Cross realm Mythics using the Premade finder.
At the beginning of WoD in WoW pre Mythic there was a lively Premade group scene. Basically there were three groups of players all sorted by time zones. I was playing 9 PM - 6 AM and there were a lot of people that I got to know because I would see them over and over again, across weeks. It got to the point where people could vouch for each other as an asset to a PUG Heroic raid. Premade groups can be toxic but the beauty is that you can leave and both sides will build a reputation. THey are also some of the most demanding groups I ahve played with in terms of performance. There is no loyalty and you are only as good as your last pull.
As a result I am all for difficult content organized and managed the same way. Cross realm Mythics using the Premade finder.
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
- 2,001
- 213
You'll be expected to provide logs showing your performance over the last few months at the minimum and the interviewer will very likely check with past guilds to figure out if you're a jerk or not. Shit, I needed logs verifying I was a good tank before a heroic 2-day a week guild would take me. I talked to a few mythic guilds and they politely told me to fuck off and learn mythic with a heroic guild before trying to ride their gravy train.
Shit, over the years I've had great success with stuff like openraid. It wasn't ever tough to find fun crews to raid with; it just involved being semi-decent at the game and not an autist introvert. That being said, I have a friend who felt it was wholly impossible to find a guild in WoW and that it was Blizzard's failure to provide adequate tools to meet people similar to him. Shrug.