Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Faux_sl said:

I think pre-alpha (not alpha) was supposed to start by the end of the year, but either way you are right and they are behind schedule (unless we won't actually even hear when pre-alpha starts due to NDA reasons). It could be going on now for all I know.

I agree with you completely. They are definitely being more secretive than they should be given their position as a largely crowdfunded development process. I want to see more than a blurb on their website about class design. If not short gameplay videos (which I can understand postponing if they are actually working on custom characters and animations now), then at least a teaser about a few class-defining abilities for each class to give people an inkling about how the classes might play. But yeah, even though I like the zone artwork they have released, they really need to release more info about the classes and combat mechanics.

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It's not going on right now unless it's some sort of super secret pre-alpha that other pre-alpha qualified people aren't invited to. The FAQ says alpha, not pre-alpha. While i understand the distinction, it's what they posted on their own site.

Yup, I edited my last post. I went and looked it up and did see that it says alpha, not pre-alpha.

Whoppedy-do, a fly-through of a zone. Noone cares.

And honestly, them changing plans and being quiet about it is par the course. For most companies, honestly, not just them. Remember "this is our first video of 2015, many more to come!" (nothing the rest of the year, The Big Update was a website with a few new screenshots hidden away).

Just 'cause you are not in alpha doesnt mean there isnt an alpha getting tested right now.

Sithro_sl said:

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"8.5/10" -IGN

Dyvim_sl said:

Just 'cause you are not in alpha doesnt mean there isnt an alpha getting tested right now.

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I am sure they are doing their own internal testing, but pre-alpha has not started, so it's a pretty damn safe assumption that alpha hasn't started since, you know pre-alpha comes before alpha.

Lohk_sl said:

"8.5/10" -IGN

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The video looked like it was done by students in the first year of video production. The actual content showed nothing. The graphics are dated and the artstyle is abysmal. However they went a killer shrimp plate to our office. 9/10.

a_skeleton_02_sl said:

I don't know about you guys, but I'm fucking hyped about pre-alpha. I'm not even being sarcastic the second I get an email from Brad with a download link and some logins I'm going to lose my shit.

The hardest part would be adhereing to any type of NDA.

Even if I was just walking around a unity asset Forrest slaying unity asset fuzzy trolls I could say I played Pantheon.

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After playing in the broken buggy mess of the broken mirror expansion, i am hyped about anything new.

I'm expecting Vanguard levels of disappointment with this one. Can't wait for my future sadness

Tenks_sl said:

The video looked like it was done by students in the first year of video production. The actual content showed nothing. The graphics are dated and the artstyle is abysmal. However they went a killer shrimp plate to our office. 9/10.

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At 9/10 IGN it is contender for Game of the Year IGN.

This year is gonna rock.

Laerazi_sl said:

I'm expecting Vanguard levels of disappointment with this one. Can't wait for my future sadness

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Vanguard was actually an awesome game when compared to what we've gotten from the MMO industry since...

Let's be honest, the bar is set so damn low right now that anything moderately decent is going to sell. The market has been stagnant for a long time.

Jysin_sl said:

Let's be honest, the bar is set so damn low right now that anything moderately decent is going to sell. The market has been stagnant for a long time.

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Or the market is dead and no one gives a fuck about MMOs anymore

Jysin_sl said:

Let's be honest, the bar is set so damn low right now that anything moderately decent is going to sell. The market has been stagnant for a long time.

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Pretty much this. I know everyone loves to hate on Brad (and for good reason), but I still hope that this provides even 6 months of fun, because the MMO genre is really trending badly right now and there isn't a ton of hope on the horizon.

Tenks_sl said:

Or the market is dead and no one gives a fuck about MMOs anymore

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I actually agree with this one more. I know my circle of friends have changed over the last 5-10 years but I don't know anyone who plays "heavy" MMOs like WoW regularly. But everyone I know, including the jock idiot, construction worker, welder, etc all play some type of "online" game on their tablet/phone. People I never thought would game have talked to me about clash of clans and shit.

Future of gaming is not a computer sit-down for hours type of game, it's 100% a console/phone/tablet based game you can play in spurts. I tried a few tablet MMO's but they all suck, but if someone came out with a decent tablet/phone MMO I have a feeling it would swoop hard. Look at the treads on Summoner Wars or Brave Frontier for an example.

Rangoth_sl said:

I actually agree with this one more. I know my circle of friends have changed over the last 5-10 years but I don't know anyone who plays "heavy" MMOs like WoW regularly. But everyone I know, including the jock idiot, construction worker, welder, etc all play some type of "online" game on their tablet/phone. People I never thought would game have talked to me about clash of clans and shit.

Future of gaming is not a computer sit-down for hours type of game, it's 100% a console/phone/tablet based game you can play in spurts. I tried a few tablet MMO's but they all suck, but if someone came out with a decent tablet/phone MMO I have a feeling it would swoop hard. Look at the treads on Summoner Wars or Brave Frontier for an example.

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This very point made me think Albion Online had a chance to strike gold but it appears they may not (or already have not) get it right. I thought the idea of a true cross platform MMO might work but truly, I think what we consider a MMO and what we see today are two completely different market and playerbases. If someone made a game that really appealed to us, even just assuming if you turned back the clock 10 years, that audience would still be 1 million at best. I think Final Fantasy has the closest thing out to a traditional MMO that looks like it's from the last couple of years. Other than that, I just don't know if we'll see anything that would appeal to us long term unless Crowfall or Camelot takes a shot at it.

Tenks_sl said:

Or the market is dead and no one gives a fuck about MMOs anymore

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For WoW MMOs this is true; I never want to play a quest-oriented MMO ever again. I enjoy building up a character, finding new rare items, taking down challenges with a small group of friends, but I absolutely hate the feel of theme park MMOs. They are incredibly predictable; once you've finished the starting area you can expect the same exact thing reskinned til level cap then time for raiding. Nothing in between even matters.

You can change up the dialog and objectives as much as you want, but at the end of the day you're still running down a boring checklist of tasks with no meaningful variance along the way. This worked for WoW when it was new, but it's so tired and played out now.

I have a hard time believing that Pantheon is going to stray from this. EverQuest had no flow to it, you just explored and died; found out about rare items, where to get them from, and that was your objective. You could make up your own path and not be chained down by exclamation marks.

I would love to play an MMO where monsters actually gave you loot and experience again, instead of quests being the objective.

Laerazi_sl said:

I absolutely hate the feel of theme park MMOs. They are incredibly predictable; once you've finished the starting area you can expect the same exact thing reskinned til level cap then time for raiding. Nothing in between even matters.

You can change up the dialog and objectives as much as you want, but at the end of the day you're still running down a boring checklist of tasks with no meaningful variance along the way. This worked for WoW when it was new, but it's so tired and played out now.

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This was my experience with Wildstar when it went F2P. I wanted to like it so badly, I truly did. But ultimately it felt like WoW with sci-fi skins.

MMOs need to be organic, dynamic and evolve. You can see the improvement of systems from EQ to DAoC.... all the way to WoW. But after WoW, it was about trying to copy it instead of improving. Blizzard cancelling their up and coming MMO I think shows that the genre is in desperate need of innovation. Blending the best of EQ, that awe and sense of discovery with streamlined systems of today.

Is Pantheon going to do that? I hope so. But I don't think it's likely.

Problem with MMORPGs is that there are too many variables and if you do a few of them wrong then, to me, it would defeat the purpose of making an MMORPG.
What I want to see in an MMORPG is PvE focused and catered towards the group experience. The content is not solo-quests; the content is you delving in dungeons of various sizes and difficulties scattered around the world for you and your friends to discover. Instead of giving you errands to follow, MMORPGs should set us free choosing our own pace. Quests should be more intimate, something that takes a long time for you to complete and the reward is great. But the whole point of playing is "the chase"; just like TCGs where you chase that mythical/rare card in an MMORPG your main focus is to chase that rare gear. Problem with most recent MMORPGs is that gear is thrown at you left and right so easily and so fast and you level too fast and upgrade your gear too fast it really doesn't matter at all. Gear is meaningless until you reach max level, this design philosophy should die.

So, "the chase" is you seeking that rare boot dropped by the vampire lord. It's as simple as that. The content should be challenging and fun with "roles" for each class. Don't listen to those who say "trinity is horrible"; actually trinity is horrible there should be more than just three roles. Roles are important in an MMORPG you need cooperation between players, you need to make players feel they have a role to fill in a group. Also, the community interdependence is important; several non-combat skills that make the life of other players easier (like Druid/Wizard portals in EQ). Another chase thing is gaining a skill, level, spell...etc. Make it hard enough to be worth while. If it's too fast, too easy and too trivial then there's no point in seeking it.

Again, a world filled with dungeons and their lore. Dungeons of various levels, sizes and difficulties. The dungeon is your main bread and butter; not quests. Scratch this "errand" style of quests and give us meaningful optional quests that take time and effort to achieve with amazing rewards.

I am unable to play an MMORPG were I have to solo-quest for hours. This, I cannot do. I will not cope with that "quest" style of MMORPGs, I'd rather shove a fork in my eye. I need freedom to test my capability with NPCs; I can go deeper in the forest to fight harder monsters or stay where I am fighting easier monsters. I decide my own pace. Monsters should not die in a few seconds and they should be difficult enough to warrant casual group play. If the average monster is too easy and dies too fast; why would I want to group with my friend? I am bored of playing solo in an MMORPG. I want to see monsters that take a long time to take down. Monsters that makes you definitely consider grouping.

This is only part of what I want in an MMORPG but I believe if designers do this one right I would be interested.