Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

intelligentleman said:

That is barely even a game.

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Take it easy qwert. You were doing good here but you're starting to unravel with that three post combo.

kegkilla said:

Take it easy qwert. You were doing good here but you're starting to unravel with that three post combo.

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How else do you reply to multiple people? All in one post?

Chimney said:

Don't you feel that is a bad model to pump out a new IP? The hardcore EQ players aren't leaving EQ or they would have already. I feel like this will attract the TLP crowd at most which is decently sizable, but still not enough to make a niche MMO flourish especially if it doesn't hit all the right spots right at launch. If we get the average new MMO attrition we'll be left with something like Pantheon P99 and who is going to keep funding it or enabling new content etc?

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Well Brad and Co are not part of Daybreak so they can't use any other IP. Hardcore EQ players may never leave because they are obsessed with only EQ, or it could be because there are no decent alternatives that aren't cartoony kids games. Nobody will ever know which it is until someone makes another game like EQ and this is the first time it has happened. If it does a good job it will get all the old EQ vets checking it out, and it will get new players who want to experience something different to all the other MMOs. If it does a bad job it will fade away and die like 99% of other MMOs.

Skanda said:

Oh, I didn't realize there was an hours played limit for ignoring good looking indie games.

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You can't compare a tiny story based game and a massive open world MMO... Anyone could just license CryEngine and make a beautiful but tiny and shallow experience, and that is exactly what the game you linked is.

mkopec said:

No, first time was Vanguard, remember?

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I don't even think Vanguard was much of a new EQ. It might have been if it followed the original vision, but by release it was just another quest grinding action game. Go to quest hub, fill your journal, go kill 1000 mobs, turn in quests and ding 5 times, on to the next hub. That's not what EQ was about.

Daidraco said:

What has really caught my attention is that through the play tests and similar, Ive noticed mobs seem very basic. At their core, its just +damage, +HP, +aggro linking behavior. Yet he has the audacity to bring up Dark Souls in his wall of text. Or better yet, how the "E" in "PVE" is going to be their main focus. I have yet to see a mob that is even remotely interesting. Thats going to be the nail in the coffin for me.

This is a hard line to walk around - because I dont want to go back to playing my UI. Nor do I want to play Wild Star-esque dance dance revolution. But fuck, I want to see a video of why a max level boss with 100 hp is more difficult than a lvl 5 Brown Bear with 500hp. All of these mobs Ive seen in these videos seem .... Lifeless? Pointless? Predictable? I mean, c'mon Brad. Im not against you, but I want to see better.

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This is the main concern I have. It's not just that everything is so static, but there needs to be a lot going on in combat. There needs to be adds that show up regularly at bad times, in EQ this was partly by design (roamers, repops etc), but also partly because adds would often come through walls. Vanguard and EQ got so dumbed down over the years I think people forget all the hundreds of little things that could cause a wipe. Like when your group runs off to another room and you follow them, but your pet takes a shortcut through a wall and aggroes a room full of mobs. Pets dont aggro anything anymore but it used to be a big deal, and it made controlling your pet important. Also runners used to be a big deal. There's a big fight and one injured mob bails... That usually meant a huge train coming your way.

To me Pantheon needs to have all this stuff and more, or it will just be too boring like all the modern MMOs. And this is just stuff old EQ had, Pantheon really needs to have that and more. I seem to remember a Vanguard video of spiders coming out of the ceiling and cracks in the walls, but I don't remember that ever happening in game. But stuff like that really needs to happen in Pantheon. I had a lot of fun in Vanguard, but after SOE got their hands on it, it was totally ruined. My last memory of Vanguard was fucking sad. Playing in a group in an end game dungeon and we went 3 hours without anyone dying and without anyone even going below 90% hp or mana.

Pantheon needs far more tension and mayhem. And in addition to all that it needs to have far more interesting and complex classes. Vanguard did a decent job, some were genius like the BM etc, some were a bit boring, like the Druid. But mostly they had new ways of playing that people hadn't seen before, like the way the Disciple worked. To me Rift basically stole most of Vanguard's classes ideas and updated them, and some of it was really great. I loved how the combo points worked, I would be in a big fight with my group as a Bard, and each big hit that I activate would give me a combo point, and then when I built it up to about 4 or 5 points, I could choose an effect to spend them on, and it was various, a big nuke, a group heal, etc. So you are thinking on your feet. It was all for nothing though because the mobs were tuned to be so easy, it didn't even matter what decision you made.... Big heal, big aoe, big single target, whatever, it doesn't matter because you are going to win anyway. But that type of class with tougher mobs like EQ, would be awesome.

I don't know if they can pull this off, but I think they might. They said in the last video that the combat they have in place now is basically placeholder combat and it will change as it gets towards beta and then more in beta.

Skanda said:

So now you're moving goalposts again. We were talking about graphics and how indies couldn't hope to keep up with AAA companies. I called bullshit and now you're trying to drag in "open world" as a defense against being wrong.

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It isn't moving the goalposts, devs don't have infinite money. If you spend 90% of your budget on Unreal4 and swanky graphics then you don't have much left for gameplay. If you value graphics over gameplay then go buy that crappy story based game you linked. Pantheon is the opposite end of the scale, it is all about making a game for people who want hardcore gameplay. The fact that the graphics look as good as they do, should impress you.

p.s. You should also go and buy Firewatch. That was all style of substance too and I completed that boring piece of shit in 2 hours flat. No exaggeration, and didn't skip anything.

intelligentleman said:

Pantheon is the opposite end of the scale, it is all about making a game for people who have personality disorders.

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fixed that for ya qwert