Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

zzeris

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Feels data my ass. As someone who actually played most of these games, logging in a few months from launch and seeing nobody on your friends list still online, every player in the guild you started with offline, and what were previous "full servers" showing low population after 3 months, is a far cry from my "feels".

Ok, that is a good point. I'll give that to you. It's not like that didn't happen to the games I mentioned, but which of these games have you been playing lately?

Wow?
FF?
GW2?
ESO?
BDO?

Which of these games have you been playing while waiting for Brad to save MMOs?
 

Skanda

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Probably all of them, and he's he one starting the conversations about Pantheon in them which is why he "always" sees people talking about it. Got to get that marketing ball rolling somehow.
 
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Ambiturner

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Feels data my ass. As someone who actually played most of these games, logging in a few months from launch and seeing nobody on your friends list still online, every player in the guild you started with offline, and what were previous "full servers" showing low population after 3 months, is a far cry from my "feels".

Your anecdotal story is the very definition of "feels data"
 
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Dullahan

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Your anecdotal story is the very definition of "feels data"
Sorry pal, but full or busy population going to low at server select across most/all servers is an actual metric. I may not have the exact numbers, but it's safe to assume those words mean something.
 
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Skanda

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Going by that loose interpretation the fact that FF14 still has locked servers to this day must mean it's blowing WoW out of the water!!!!!
 

zzeris

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Dullahan Dullahan , didn't you say earlier in the thread that you quit BDO after 2-3 months when your guildies, etc quit playing? Did you go back to that shit game or is that the extent of your knowledge? What about the other MMOs you've played and know about their success? How long did you play and how long ago was that? It sounds like your experience is truly the textbook example of anecdotal...
 

Pyros

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BDO is hard to judge if it's doing well because regardless it's going to be carried by some asian markets(probably china more so than korea, not sure it's doing so hot in korea but maybe it is). Lots of KR mmos actually have bad numbers in KR and in the west but still do fine in China, enough that the KR devs still make content for them. That said, judging by Twitch viewers metrics, it's still doing very well. It has more viewers than pretty much every other mmo but WoW whenever I check.

On that top10 lists I'd be more concerned about Star Trek and Neverwinter, both of which I assumed were dead(Star Trek especially, I thought it'd be closed by now).
 

Dullahan

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Dullahan Dullahan , didn't you say earlier in the thread that you quit BDO after 2-3 months when your guildies, etc quit playing? Did you go back to that shit game or is that the extent of your knowledge? What about the other MMOs you've played and know about their success? How long did you play and how long ago was that? It sounds like your experience is truly the textbook example of anecdotal...
Nope, I didn't go back. Yes, some of these observations are surely anecdotal, but I do follow the stats. There was an influx with Black Desert following the steam launch, for instance, but that tapered back off as well. As such, numbers like 1.8 million total users on a game that runs sales for $15 and has no subscription means next to nothing and is in no way indicative of being "healthy".
 
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Skanda

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There is always an initial influx and then die off. Always. Pantheon will experience the exact same thing, if it ever releases.
 

Daidraco

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You cant judge an MMO's success on how many players are playing the game. Thats short sighted af. Shoe String Budget Pantheon over here could probably be called a success with just 50k subscribers worth of income. Where as the dumb asses behind Star Wars dumped so much f'n money into development that even if they had half a million subscribers worth of income per month that they are likely still in the hole.

As for BDO - I know plenty of "whales" that still play that game and have every single stupid piece of cosmetic shit you can buy, tier 9000 pets, wagons, boats, and horses. I only played for 2 months and even I ended up spending about 130, not including the initial game purchase. Not to forget that the last time I played, I think everybody had the Ghile suit, too. BDO has made a pile of money and I congratulate them on that.

Lastly, "ebb and flow" happens in any market. Users will come and go, and come and go. Im starting to figure out I dont like coming back mid expansion for WoW but love the feeling of starting fresh when a full blown expansion launches for example.
 

goishen

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It might be myopic, but it's one of the best indicators on whether or not a game will flourish.

Take your example of Pantheon having 50K subscribers. Brad won't ever be happy with that. I mean, fuck, where will he get his next drug hit, dirt bike, or Lambo? I have zero doubts that he's thinking of himself as some grand visionary at the next game awards telling the world how he made the WoW killer.
 
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Ukerric

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There is always an initial influx and then die off. Always. Pantheon will experience the exact same thing, if it ever releases.
This is mostly a modern phenomenon. If you look at games in the oughts, then a lot of them started and grew over a year or two (or more). EQ consistently grew from 1999 to 2003. AC1 did for over two years. I think Anarchy Online (mid 2001) was the very first game to exhibit the burst and crash. But until 2004, you had a mix of very succesful games that grew over a year or two or three, and a couple that launched and crashed. It's only since 2004 that the majority of games started to exhibit that behavior.

I'll leave to the reader to decide if it is a change in the playerbase, or the industry that caused that.
 
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Vinjin

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It’s a mix of both. And it all traces back to WoW.

We all know that WoW ushered in a whole new set of standards in the genre while simultaneously bringing in an exponential amount of new gamers to the MMO industry. But those new gamers created new dynamics within the industry. For starters, there’s simply more people playing, which means more people will also leave the industry at some point (or at least, come and go over time), all of which starts to skew the numbers.

And then of course is the mass of WoW clones that came into the market since then as well. These have not only fractured the gaming community into hundreds of smaller ones, but the direction of those games has also pushed people away from the genre completely.

Fifteen years ago, I had X amount of time to myself per day/week/month. The idea of an online game world with other players seemed pretty cool. All one had to do was pick the game/world that you liked best from the handful of games that were available (UO, EQ, AC, DAoC, WoW, etc).

Fast forward to today. I still have the same amount of time to myself for entertainment (probably less) but now there are thousands of titles to pick from. Many of them seem like replicas of each other while others, although more to my liking and personal preferences, are old, tired and worn out.

So yeah, take your pick. Or don’t play any games and play the forums instead. It’s more entertaining and cheaper.
 

Grim1

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Mobile games are the new holy grail. Just looking at NCSoft's quarterlies was a huge eye opener for me. Lineage M is destroying it. And NCSoft has recently stated they are going to put more focus on mobile. Other gaming companies are doing the same.

That doesn't mean mmo's for pcs are dead but they are not the golden child anymore.

x2jpRc0.png
 
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goishen

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What I think you're seeing there though is all those companies started out as PC gaming companies (like EA) that got into the mobile market. They saw how much money could be made off of that and decided to bring it over.

What we need is new management. Somebody to either start a new company or reform an old one (I would say EA again, but, who am I kidding?) and say, "This is our mobile market, this is our PC market, and there will be no interaction between them."
 
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wilkxus

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What we need is new management. Somebody to either start a new company or reform an old one (I would say EA again, but, who am I kidding?) and say, "This is our mobile market, this is our PC market, and there will be no interaction between them."
But why would the big companies do this? .... ummm, *cough*.... they want to make money, and stay in business and make MORE money from sales and cross platform exposure, not less by artificially limiting their exposure and sales.
 

goishen

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Obviously they wanna make more money. That is a big giant NO SHIT, SHERLOCK.

What? Are taking Business 101 down at your local community college right now and think that you're blowing me away with all this knowledge?
 

Ambiturner

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What I think you're seeing there though is all those companies started out as PC gaming companies (like EA) that got into the mobile market. They saw how much money could be made off of that and decided to bring it over.

What we need is new management. Somebody to either start a new company or reform an old one (I would say EA again, but, who am I kidding?) and say, "This is our mobile market, this is our PC market, and there will be no interaction between them."

But why would the big companies do this? .... ummm, *cough*.... they want to make money, and stay in business and make MORE money from sales and cross platform exposure, not less by artificially limiting their exposure and sales.

Obviously they wanna make more money. That is a big giant NO SHIT, SHERLOCK.

What? Are taking Business 101 down at your local community college right now and think that you're blowing me away with all this knowledge?

Goishen: Something retarded
Wilkxus: You're retarded
Goishen: WELL NO SHIT I'M RETARDED
 
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