Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
EQ combat could definitely be fun. Not too much fun about hitting auto attack, but the nuances to pulling, CC, off tanking, controlling aggro, etc. made encounters interesting. Strats like fear-kiting, root and rot, dot stacking, charm kiting, etc

At the end of the day, I really enjoyed seeing how much shit I could kill before I had to sit down and med. Once you mastered the basics, it became a game of seeing how efficient you could be.
Combat in EQ is quite interesting. You can pick your own pace; want to snooze and play safe? Sure go to a lower level area and grind your below average xp. Want to get more XP/hour or better loot? You're going to be in for some challenge. While combat doesn't look sexy in EQ as a spectator but I know that you can be on your toes the whole fight when shit happens and shit can happen all the time. With all these fizzles, resists, adds, bad pulls, trains...etc. These kind of problems makes everyone work their ass off. You'll find your druid kiting one add while your wizard pulling another and rooting it while nuking the main target and at the same time keeping their fingers on Evacuation just in case. Cleric healing like crazy. Tanks trying to taunt two monsters at the same time trying to keep everything going on your cleric. Necromancer snaring and fearing one mob then aggro kiting it. You become in a situation that requires everyone to be on top of their game to survive and when you do; it's high five time "Great Group everyone!". Those kind of moments are memorable and honestly how can scenarios like this happen without EQ's mechanics in combat? In other games this shit can only happen with scripted content or if you try hard to make it happen; which is boring and predictable either way.
 

Sevens

Log Wizard
5,006
15,269
Poorly made game that basically died in 2004. Nothing to be angry about. Just gotta wipe the crap off the rose tinted glasses sometimes so you guys can see. Think of it as a public service for when Brad burns you again.
22 servers still up and running...its not the MMO king but its a long ways from being dead
 

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
48,267
283,431
That's right EQ is bumpin bitch. It's time to slay the dragon.


But really that shit died when Gates of Discord was released in an unfinished shit pile and World of Warcraft even with all it's new release bugs didn't suck asshole through a straw like the overtuned faggitry that was EQ at the time.
 

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
Poorly made game that basically died in 2004. Nothing to be angry about. Just gotta wipe the crap off the rose tinted glasses sometimes so you guys can see. Think of it as a public service for when Brad burns you again.
I can't wait for Pantheon to get released so I can poop all over this "rose tinted glasses" bullshit with my /playtime.
 

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
That's right EQ is bumpin bitch. It's time to slay the dragon.


But really that shit died when Gates of Discord was released in an unfinished shit pile and World of Warcraft even with all it's new release bugs didn't suck asshole through a straw like the overtuned faggitry that was EQ at the time.
True, once SOE took over and EQ being heading towards a shitty road. It started with PoP and their raid-focus crap and hidden content from group; if you don't belong in a top tier guild good luck experiencing half of the content. Then GoD was released and that's when I said "Fuck this, I'm out." I despise raiding and I've never found them entertaining. I have no freaking clue how people think they're fun.

Raiding on and off itself isn't bad; but when your focus with content is towards raids and top tier guilds then you're going to alienate a big portion of your player base.
 

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
True, once SOE took over and EQ being heading towards a shitty road. It started with PoP and their raid-focus crap and hidden content from group; if you don't belong in a top tier guild good luck experiencing half of the content. Then GoD was released and that's when I said "Fuck this, I'm out." I despise raiding and I've never found them entertaining. I have no freaking clue how people think they're fun.

Raiding on and off itself isn't bad; but when your focus with content is towards raids and top tier guilds then you're going to alienate a big portion of your player base.
I always found raiding fun when you are in one of the top guilds racing to kill content first or contested content on PVP servers ( eq2 ).
 

Punko

Macho Ma'am
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
7,921
12,571
I liked PoP. It wasn't easy, but I was in a strong guild, and PoTime gear really was something new. Some game-changing clickies there (shaman slow clicky, pouch of the tranquil, the disease proc buff thingy that gave good agro, ..)

GoD was hard as fuck, but completing the mountain trials really was gratifying.

I only quit years after, when every raid mob had at least 8 emotes, and a boatload of hitpoints. Every raid turned into 30 minutes of "simon says", and a few slackers in a raid missing crucial emotes would guarantee a wipe, even if 50/54 players in your raid were on the ball.

It got even worse when they decided it was a good idea to announce who missed what emote.

"davey the awesome cleric which happens to be slacking for 2 minutes has missed the emote, you all can go fuck yourselves as the main mob destroys the raid"

That was really solid game design, if the intended goal was to destroy guild cohesion. When doing 4 hour raids, everyone loses their concentration at least for a few minutes an hour, and if you happen to be unlucky enough to get targeted by an emote while grabbing a smoke, you'd wipe the raid and have people on your ass for it.

/mad still
 

Laerazi_sl

shitlord
293
2
EQ combat could definitely be fun. Not too much fun about hitting auto attack, but the nuances to pulling, CC, off tanking, controlling aggro, etc. made encounters interesting. Strats like fear-kiting, root and rot, dot stacking, charm kiting, etc

At the end of the day, I really enjoyed seeing how much shit I could kill before I had to sit down and med. Once you mastered the basics, it became a game of seeing how efficient you could be.
Yep, EverQuest's combat was strong in requiring situational awareness and crowd control. Where you stood in a normal dungeon actually mattered, since patrols or respawns could get you if you were careless. In newer games that stuff simply doesn't matter, you just run up to a group of enemies and slaughter them and then rinse/repeat. The actual fighting in EverQuest was pretty minimal.. but if I had to chose between auto-attack and hitting the same 4 button sequence over and over I'm fine with auto-attack.

With shorter fights, it's almost always faster to just DPS down enemies than to CC them. I rarely see CC being used in non-raid settings in MMOs, and that's a shame imo.
 

Hmerly

Golden Knight of the Realm
113
1
I think EQ's charm, in terms of combat, was that things weren't always so scripted. Unexpected things would sometimes happen. Certain mobs would run, others would stay and fight. You always had to be on your guard in tougher dungeons or encounters, and come in prepared with the proper group balance and spells selected. You had to account for different types of mobs, know if they'd run, or if they'd stay and fight, whether they were undead, or not, etc. Lots of variables. Then you also had to worry, in tight quarters, about spacing, your place in the area, not accidentally pulling more mobs, roamers, and respawns. Many a group were wiped due to a mob running causing a train.

Nowadays, its mostly run into a group of mobs, no way to CC, no way to seperate, just smash everything in the way. No group cohesion, just a group of people soloing the mob in front of them pretty much.
 

Arden

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,648
1,941
Yeah, like I said in a previous post, the pathing, spawn times, aggro radius, social aggro radius, etc, were all really really well done and fine-tuned with EQ. It made encounters challenging but fun because a skilled puller or CC player could simply do outlandish shit that 90% of the rest of the server couldn't.

And yeah, in most modern mmos and many single player games, fucking up and pulling more than you intended usually just means a longer fight. In EQ it could mean death and a CR very easily-- which served to ratchet up the suspense and thereby the entertainment value.

Pantheon is going to have to work hard if they want to replicate that element of EQ-- which, of course, they do want to do.
 

pharmakos

soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
<Bronze Donator>
16,306
-2,237
watching my enchanter buddy figure out how to single pull Emperor Chottal in the Sebilis Crypt without us having a lock picker in the group was awesome. still not entirely sure how he did it, was a combination of gnome illusion to look through walls, bind sight, and /tar trickery... was completely done with fair game mechanics, not MQ or anything... give me a game where shit like that is possible again. the emergent gameplay from EQ was second to none afaik.
 

Praetorian

Golden Knight of the Realm
174
240
I liked PoP. It wasn't easy, but I was in a strong guild, and PoTime gear really was something new. Some game-changing clickies there (shaman slow clicky, pouch of the tranquil, the disease proc buff thingy that gave good agro, ..)

GoD was hard as fuck, but completing the mountain trials really was gratifying.

I only quit years after, when every raid mob had at least 8 emotes, and a boatload of hitpoints. Every raid turned into 30 minutes of "simon says", and a few slackers in a raid missing crucial emotes would guarantee a wipe, even if 50/54 players in your raid were on the ball.

It got even worse when they decided it was a good idea to announce who missed what emote.

"davey the awesome cleric which happens to be slacking for 2 minutes has missed the emote, you all can go fuck yourselves as the main mob destroys the raid"

That was really solid game design, if the intended goal was to destroy guild cohesion. When doing 4 hour raids, everyone loses their concentration at least for a few minutes an hour, and if you happen to be unlucky enough to get targeted by an emote while grabbing a smoke, you'd wipe the raid and have people on your ass for it.

/mad still
Were you Davey? I feel like you are letting out some deep feels. We are here for you.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
watching my enchanter buddy figure out how to single pull Emperor Chottal in the Sebilis Crypt without us having a lock picker in the group was awesome. still not entirely sure how he did it, was a combination of gnome illusion to look through walls, bind sight, and /tar trickery... was completely done with fair game mechanics, not MQ or anything... give me a game where shit like that is possible again. the emergent gameplay from EQ was second to none afaik.
These are the things I'm expecting to not only exist but to evolve.
 

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
16,305
42,381
Yeah right. You're so fucking delusional about this game. Brad will nerf and tweak the fun out of every emergent behavior. He wants you playing his exact vision of the game. He's the game God, not the players.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Yeah right. You're so fucking delusional about this game. Brad will nerf and tweak the fun out of every emergent behavior. He wants you playing his exact vision of the game. He's the game God, not the players.
Have you even read the pantheon difference bro!?

Dev team is built with EQ lovers at heart, I know you like to think Evil Brad is just going to run rogue and do whatever he wants, but it's a cooperative effort and it's really unlikely those decisions will be made by one person.

I might be delusional but have you read your post lately?
 

KCXIV

Molten Core Raider
1,456
180
Yeah, like I said in a previous post, the pathing, spawn times, aggro radius, social aggro radius, etc, were all really really well done and fine-tuned with EQ. It made encounters challenging but fun because a skilled puller or CC player could simply do outlandish shit that 90% of the rest of the server couldn't.

And yeah, in most modern mmos and many single player games, fucking up and pulling more than you intended usually just means a longer fight. In EQ it could mean death and a CR very easily-- which served to ratchet up the suspense and thereby the entertainment value.

Pantheon is going to have to work hard if they want to replicate that element of EQ-- which, of course, they do want to do.
man, if you had a runner and he somehow got away,you just knew it was gonna be bad. Necro's had to fd in a safe spot if the runner brought back to many mobs.lol The corpse runs were just as fun for me at times then even getting experience. Had some long long nights laughing my ass off because something went bad. lol
 

Dullahan

Golden Knight of the Realm
259
256
I think EQ's charm, in terms of combat, was that things weren't always so scripted. Unexpected things would sometimes happen. Certain mobs would run, others would stay and fight. You always had to be on your guard in tougher dungeons or encounters, and come in prepared with the proper group balance and spells selected. You had to account for different types of mobs, know if they'd run, or if they'd stay and fight, whether they were undead, or not, etc. Lots of variables. Then you also had to worry, in tight quarters, about spacing, your place in the area, not accidentally pulling more mobs, roamers, and respawns. Many a group were wiped due to a mob running causing a train.

Nowadays, its mostly run into a group of mobs, no way to CC, no way to seperate, just smash everything in the way. No group cohesion, just a group of people soloing the mob in front of them pretty much.
Exactly. That is the difference between grinding in EQ and grinding in say, BDO. YMMV but I could grind in the above scenario for hours and never get bored. It was always exciting to me. BDO on the other hand put me to sleep. I literally could not stay awake playing it.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,449
11,689
They aren't good enough or have the time or funds enough to nerf the fun out of Pantheon. That may be it's only saving grace.