Erronius
Macho Ma'am
- 16,461
- 42,372
He (Cyrus Nock) ended up with a 'dislocated elbow, fractured vertebra, three fractured ribs and a collapsed lung'
...and in other news, he's still in better shape than Pantheon's development is
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Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
He (Cyrus Nock) ended up with a 'dislocated elbow, fractured vertebra, three fractured ribs and a collapsed lung'
...and in other news, he's still in better shape than Pantheon's development is
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 18,201
- -341
It's Micro vs Macro.
Actually micromanaging your character to cast spells and avoid mechanics is easy.
Getting your character to that encounter with enough other people is difficult.
MMOs are moving towards better micro content (more complex classes and bosses) and away from macro content (organising travel and guilds).
Nirgon
YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
- 12,704
- 19,586
Classic EQ with dark night times and functional spell resistances, stamina drain, npc assist range was hard (none of these things work correctly in any emulator even after 10 years of work), esp early game.
Emus have spoiled the brains and memories of many.
Emus have spoiled the brains and memories of many.
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ili
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 517
- 193
The internet today is not the same as it was back in 1999. Beta/Alpha testing is not that same as it was back then. Most everything is data mined and known before release. If EQ came out today everything would be known in the matter of weeks if not before release. Those days of mystery and not knowing are long gone and never coming back. Also the community around these games is not the same anymore either, not many people are going into these games without an already established group, where in EQ majority of the players had to make friends.
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Joppa_VR
Pantheon Team
- 31
- 22
Arden
Was good to read your posts - helps to clarify where some things may have been lost in translation from that podcast.The point of the video was simply this: to emphasize our expectation that Pantheon is going to be a game that resonates with a lot of people and to disempower the word “niche” as it’s currently wielded in the context of Pantheon (to gate-keep potential fans of the game and hamstring our efforts to evolve what an MMORPG experience can be).
Where it seems like people are getting hung up is how Pantheon might deviate from its core vision in order to attract the most people possible. I want to assure anyone who cares about the ultimate direction and outcome of this game that this is not our goal. Having worked with Brad to establish the tenets for Pantheon - they are just as much mine as his, and I have no plans to deviate from them. But the exact details on how the various elements of the game are executed may not always be what someone expected, particularly when it isn’t done the same way it was in EverQuest.
A clone of EverQuest would admittedly be a "niche" game - and there's nothing wrong with that. But I believe a game made in the spirit of EverQuest, embracing all that it did well while also innovating/evolving various game systems and embracing modern advances would not be a "niche" game. I believe there are many, many people out there who would love a game like we're making. This doesn’t mean we are making Pantheon specifically to attract the largest amount of people - we wouldn’t have a death penalty, for example, if that was our goal. But I believe what we're making will resonate with a lot of people. Those are two different statements.
So let’s do a quick check list:
- Will Pantheon be a group-centric game? Yes. Grouping in Pantheon will be the most fulfilling game experience and will always lead to greater rewards. However, we also want to see paths for solo-viability as well, similar to the paths that existed in EverQuest, with even more possibilities in Pantheon for players who think creatively.
- Will Pantheon have a death penalty? Yes. I emphasized in the podcast that a death penalty, and one that is actually felt, is necessary to create a truly immersive experience. But I also believe real tension can be achieved without an overly punitive death penalty. And that's the key. The main assertion I made regarding the death penalty is that it is not something we are going to drive so strongly and so harshly that we end up alienating a lot of people who would/could have otherwise loved everything Pantheon is going to be.
The other consideration we’re taking into account for the death penalty is to make sure that it’s not parasitic to our other game systems or gameplay goals. A death penalty is critical to the fabric of the game. However, where some may see us “watering it down” for the sake of attracting more players, the reality is that the severity of the death penalty needs to be commensurate with the other game systems that form the complete experience. In other words, we would be designing against ourselves if we implemented an overly punitive death penalty while encouraging players to go out, explore, discover, take risks and uphold our longstanding goal of a 2-3 hour core play experience.
And I’ll refrain from touching on the effect 96% rez sticks had on the feeling of tension in EQ. I’d like for death to always create tension in Pantheon, so this is an area I feel like we can improve.
- Will Pantheon be a highly challenging game? Yes. Significantly moreso than EverQuest was (which is also a factor that must feed into how the death penalty is balanced). But we won’t be beating players over the head at level 1. The nuances, challenge and complexities of the game will unfold over time.
- Will travel be long and meaningful? Meaningful is a bit subjective, but I think a true sense of “arrival” is part of making the world feel truly massive (i.e. the first time you made the run from Qeynos to Freeport on foot). And we have no intention of overloading the game with fast-travel options. However, I do firmly believe that faster forms of movement and a careful application of fast-travel elements that players can open up for themselves over time is an important part of the player growth and prestige arc.
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Hateyou
Not Great, Not Terrible
- 16,288
- 42,321
I for one can’t wait.
The point of the video was simply this: to emphasize our expectation that Pantheon is going to be a game that resonates with a lot of people and to disempower the word “niche” as it’s currently wielded in the context of Pantheon (to gate-keep potential fans of the game and hamstring our efforts to evolve what an MMORPG experience can be).
Where it seems like people are getting hung up is how Pantheon might deviate from its core vision in order to attract the most people possible. I want to assure anyone who cares about the ultimate direction and outcome of this game that this is not our goal. Having worked with Brad to establish the tenets for Pantheon - they are just as much mine as his, and I have no plans to deviate from them. But the exact details on how the various elements of the game are executed may not always be what someone expected, particularly when it isn’t done the same way it was in EverQuest.
A clone of EverQuest would admittedly be a "niche" game - and there's nothing wrong with that. But I believe a game made in the spirit of EverQuest, embracing all that it did well while also innovating/evolving various game systems and embracing modern advances would not be a "niche" game. I believe there are many, many people out there who would love a game like we're making. This doesn’t mean we are making Pantheon specifically to attract the largest amount of people - we wouldn’t have a death penalty, for example, if that was our goal. But I believe what we're making will resonate with a lot of people. Those are two different statements.
So let’s do a quick check list:
- Will Pantheon be a group-centric game? Yes. Grouping in Pantheon will be the most fulfilling game experience and will always lead to greater rewards. However, we also want to see paths for solo-viability as well, similar to the paths that existed in EverQuest, with even more possibilities in Pantheon for players who think creatively.
- Will Pantheon have a death penalty? Yes. I emphasized in the podcast that a death penalty, and one that is actually felt, is necessary to create a truly immersive experience. But I also believe real tension can be achieved without an overly punitive death penalty. And that's the key. The main assertion I made regarding the death penalty is that it is not something we are going to drive so strongly and so harshly that we end up alienating a lot of people who would/could have otherwise loved everything Pantheon is going to be.
The other consideration we’re taking into account for the death penalty is to make sure that it’s not parasitic to our other game systems or gameplay goals. A death penalty is critical to the fabric of the game. However, where some may see us “watering it down” for the sake of attracting more players, the reality is that the severity of the death penalty needs to be commensurate with the other game systems that form the complete experience. In other words, we would be designing against ourselves if we implemented an overly punitive death penalty while encouraging players to go out, explore, discover, take risks and uphold our longstanding goal of a 2-3 hour core play experience.
And I’ll refrain from touching on the effect 96% rez sticks had on the feeling of tension in EQ. I’d like for death to always create tension in Pantheon, so this is an area I feel like we can improve.
- Will Pantheon be a highly challenging game? Yes. Significantly moreso than EverQuest was (which is also a factor that must feed into how the death penalty is balanced). But we won’t be beating players over the head at level 1. The nuances, challenge and complexities of the game will unfold over time.
- Will travel be long and meaningful? Meaningful is a bit subjective, but I think a true sense of “arrival” is part of making the world feel truly massive (i.e. the first time you made the run from Qeynos to Freeport on foot). And we have no intention of overloading the game with fast-travel options. However, I do firmly believe that faster forms of movement and a careful application of fast-travel elements that players can open up for themselves over time is an important part of the player growth and prestige arc.
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Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 9,198
- 9,305
Have you paid any attention to New World and its several.. uhh "hurdles"? Have you guys took anything to heart from that mess? On that same note, you mentioned travel - is it going to be like New World's? I'm not interested in collecting 5000 mounts, but are you going to have at least a Horse or something if you're going with limited fast travel?
The point of the video was simply this: to emphasize our expectation that Pantheon is going to be a game that resonates with a lot of people and to disempower the word “niche” as it’s currently wielded in the context of Pantheon (to gate-keep potential fans of the game and hamstring our efforts to evolve what an MMORPG experience can be).
Where it seems like people are getting hung up is how Pantheon might deviate from its core vision in order to attract the most people possible. I want to assure anyone who cares about the ultimate direction and outcome of this game that this is not our goal. Having worked with Brad to establish the tenets for Pantheon - they are just as much mine as his, and I have no plans to deviate from them. But the exact details on how the various elements of the game are executed may not always be what someone expected, particularly when it isn’t done the same way it was in EverQuest.
A clone of EverQuest would admittedly be a "niche" game - and there's nothing wrong with that. But I believe a game made in the spirit of EverQuest, embracing all that it did well while also innovating/evolving various game systems and embracing modern advances would not be a "niche" game. I believe there are many, many people out there who would love a game like we're making. This doesn’t mean we are making Pantheon specifically to attract the largest amount of people - we wouldn’t have a death penalty, for example, if that was our goal. But I believe what we're making will resonate with a lot of people. Those are two different statements.
So let’s do a quick check list:
- Will Pantheon be a group-centric game? Yes. Grouping in Pantheon will be the most fulfilling game experience and will always lead to greater rewards. However, we also want to see paths for solo-viability as well, similar to the paths that existed in EverQuest, with even more possibilities in Pantheon for players who think creatively.
- Will Pantheon have a death penalty? Yes. I emphasized in the podcast that a death penalty, and one that is actually felt, is necessary to create a truly immersive experience. But I also believe real tension can be achieved without an overly punitive death penalty. And that's the key. The main assertion I made regarding the death penalty is that it is not something we are going to drive so strongly and so harshly that we end up alienating a lot of people who would/could have otherwise loved everything Pantheon is going to be.
The other consideration we’re taking into account for the death penalty is to make sure that it’s not parasitic to our other game systems or gameplay goals. A death penalty is critical to the fabric of the game. However, where some may see us “watering it down” for the sake of attracting more players, the reality is that the severity of the death penalty needs to be commensurate with the other game systems that form the complete experience. In other words, we would be designing against ourselves if we implemented an overly punitive death penalty while encouraging players to go out, explore, discover, take risks and uphold our longstanding goal of a 2-3 hour core play experience.
And I’ll refrain from touching on the effect 96% rez sticks had on the feeling of tension in EQ. I’d like for death to always create tension in Pantheon, so this is an area I feel like we can improve.
- Will Pantheon be a highly challenging game? Yes. Significantly moreso than EverQuest was (which is also a factor that must feed into how the death penalty is balanced). But we won’t be beating players over the head at level 1. The nuances, challenge and complexities of the game will unfold over time.
- Will travel be long and meaningful? Meaningful is a bit subjective, but I think a true sense of “arrival” is part of making the world feel truly massive (i.e. the first time you made the run from Qeynos to Freeport on foot). And we have no intention of overloading the game with fast-travel options. However, I do firmly believe that faster forms of movement and a careful application of fast-travel elements that players can open up for themselves over time is an important part of the player growth and prestige arc.
Chimney
Trakanon Raider
- 1,652
- 1,167
Don't worry for only $420.69 you can buy the legacy package that allows your pre pre alpha acess to pass down to your great great great grandchild.
- 2
- 2
- 1
Utnayan
I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
- 16,290
- 12,054
The point of the video was simply this: to emphasize our expectation that Pantheon is going to be a game that resonates with a lot of people and to disempower the word “niche” as it’s currently wielded in the context of Pantheon (to gate-keep potential fans of the game and hamstring our efforts to evolve what an MMORPG experience can be).
Where it seems like people are getting hung up is how Pantheon might deviate from its core vision in order to attract the most people possible. I want to assure anyone who cares about the ultimate direction and outcome of this game that this is not our goal. Having worked with Brad to establish the tenets for Pantheon - they are just as much mine as his, and I have no plans to deviate from them. But the exact details on how the various elements of the game are executed may not always be what someone expected, particularly when it isn’t done the same way it was in EverQuest.
A clone of EverQuest would admittedly be a "niche" game - and there's nothing wrong with that. But I believe a game made in the spirit of EverQuest, embracing all that it did well while also innovating/evolving various game systems and embracing modern advances would not be a "niche" game. I believe there are many, many people out there who would love a game like we're making. This doesn’t mean we are making Pantheon specifically to attract the largest amount of people - we wouldn’t have a death penalty, for example, if that was our goal. But I believe what we're making will resonate with a lot of people. Those are two different statements.
So let’s do a quick check list:
- Will Pantheon be a group-centric game? Yes. Grouping in Pantheon will be the most fulfilling game experience and will always lead to greater rewards. However, we also want to see paths for solo-viability as well, similar to the paths that existed in EverQuest, with even more possibilities in Pantheon for players who think creatively.
- Will Pantheon have a death penalty? Yes. I emphasized in the podcast that a death penalty, and one that is actually felt, is necessary to create a truly immersive experience. But I also believe real tension can be achieved without an overly punitive death penalty. And that's the key. The main assertion I made regarding the death penalty is that it is not something we are going to drive so strongly and so harshly that we end up alienating a lot of people who would/could have otherwise loved everything Pantheon is going to be.
The other consideration we’re taking into account for the death penalty is to make sure that it’s not parasitic to our other game systems or gameplay goals. A death penalty is critical to the fabric of the game. However, where some may see us “watering it down” for the sake of attracting more players, the reality is that the severity of the death penalty needs to be commensurate with the other game systems that form the complete experience. In other words, we would be designing against ourselves if we implemented an overly punitive death penalty while encouraging players to go out, explore, discover, take risks and uphold our longstanding goal of a 2-3 hour core play experience.
And I’ll refrain from touching on the effect 96% rez sticks had on the feeling of tension in EQ. I’d like for death to always create tension in Pantheon, so this is an area I feel like we can improve.
- Will Pantheon be a highly challenging game? Yes. Significantly moreso than EverQuest was (which is also a factor that must feed into how the death penalty is balanced). But we won’t be beating players over the head at level 1. The nuances, challenge and complexities of the game will unfold over time.
- Will travel be long and meaningful? Meaningful is a bit subjective, but I think a true sense of “arrival” is part of making the world feel truly massive (i.e. the first time you made the run from Qeynos to Freeport on foot). And we have no intention of overloading the game with fast-travel options. However, I do firmly believe that faster forms of movement and a careful application of fast-travel elements that players can open up for themselves over time is an important part of the player growth and prestige arc.
Yeah - I think at this point the biggest question is when will anyone be able to play regardless of the constant back and forth diatribe we see from every MMORPG forum on the planet when they talk about all the above at a high level.
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Honestly I can't see how they are keeping people paid for a game not even in Alpha yet - I think the game itself has already become "One of the Fallen."
This thread has definitely been entertaining though!
This thread has definitely been entertaining though!
That's all I could think of too. This most recent post from Joppa_VR was cross-posted on their official forums as well. I've listened to the most recent podcast and read this and that, and..
Honestly? It's just more words and delay at this point. They can say whatever they want, but in a few months, this project will be 8 years old and you can't buy the game and play it. The website & FAQ hasn't been updated in over a year.
Sorry to say it, Joppa_VR, but outside looking in? This project is dead, dying, or on life support. The only thing keeping up the illusion of life are the bloated twitching necromantic corpses of whales flopping around on a baked beach of crowdfunded sand, with tiny waves of kool-aid lapping at their bodies.
Reddit, the official forums, mmorpg.com, and the comments section of every form of social media and content creator has the same theme: The recent changes have shifted the direction of the game. The target audience of the game has noticed a shift in the wind, but.. there isn't one? Ok!
I guess all those people are wrong, and nothing has changed.Good stuff, looking forward to the next estimate of when Alpha is going to start. Maybe in 2022 the $1000-10000 buy-in could net 31 hours of testing time, instead of 30 hours, for the year?
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 18,201
- -341
Has anyone at the company considered prototyping the game mechanics you are going for in a single player game?
The point of the video was simply this: to emphasize our expectation that Pantheon is going to be a game that resonates with a lot of people and to disempower the word “niche” as it’s currently wielded in the context of Pantheon (to gate-keep potential fans of the game and hamstring our efforts to evolve what an MMORPG experience can be).
Where it seems like people are getting hung up is how Pantheon might deviate from its core vision in order to attract the most people possible. I want to assure anyone who cares about the ultimate direction and outcome of this game that this is not our goal. Having worked with Brad to establish the tenets for Pantheon - they are just as much mine as his, and I have no plans to deviate from them. But the exact details on how the various elements of the game are executed may not always be what someone expected, particularly when it isn’t done the same way it was in EverQuest.
A clone of EverQuest would admittedly be a "niche" game - and there's nothing wrong with that. But I believe a game made in the spirit of EverQuest, embracing all that it did well while also innovating/evolving various game systems and embracing modern advances would not be a "niche" game. I believe there are many, many people out there who would love a game like we're making. This doesn’t mean we are making Pantheon specifically to attract the largest amount of people - we wouldn’t have a death penalty, for example, if that was our goal. But I believe what we're making will resonate with a lot of people. Those are two different statements.
So let’s do a quick check list:
- Will Pantheon be a group-centric game? Yes. Grouping in Pantheon will be the most fulfilling game experience and will always lead to greater rewards. However, we also want to see paths for solo-viability as well, similar to the paths that existed in EverQuest, with even more possibilities in Pantheon for players who think creatively.
- Will Pantheon have a death penalty? Yes. I emphasized in the podcast that a death penalty, and one that is actually felt, is necessary to create a truly immersive experience. But I also believe real tension can be achieved without an overly punitive death penalty. And that's the key. The main assertion I made regarding the death penalty is that it is not something we are going to drive so strongly and so harshly that we end up alienating a lot of people who would/could have otherwise loved everything Pantheon is going to be.
The other consideration we’re taking into account for the death penalty is to make sure that it’s not parasitic to our other game systems or gameplay goals. A death penalty is critical to the fabric of the game. However, where some may see us “watering it down” for the sake of attracting more players, the reality is that the severity of the death penalty needs to be commensurate with the other game systems that form the complete experience. In other words, we would be designing against ourselves if we implemented an overly punitive death penalty while encouraging players to go out, explore, discover, take risks and uphold our longstanding goal of a 2-3 hour core play experience.
And I’ll refrain from touching on the effect 96% rez sticks had on the feeling of tension in EQ. I’d like for death to always create tension in Pantheon, so this is an area I feel like we can improve.
- Will Pantheon be a highly challenging game? Yes. Significantly moreso than EverQuest was (which is also a factor that must feed into how the death penalty is balanced). But we won’t be beating players over the head at level 1. The nuances, challenge and complexities of the game will unfold over time.
- Will travel be long and meaningful? Meaningful is a bit subjective, but I think a true sense of “arrival” is part of making the world feel truly massive (i.e. the first time you made the run from Qeynos to Freeport on foot). And we have no intention of overloading the game with fast-travel options. However, I do firmly believe that faster forms of movement and a careful application of fast-travel elements that players can open up for themselves over time is an important part of the player growth and prestige arc.
Blizzard prototyped WoW in the Warcraft 3 Expansion Orc Campaign.
Riot are releasing lots of games to build the lore and world.
Your 8 years of development time could have made a single player RPG of some sort to both raise funds and hype for the MMO.
Hateyou
Not Great, Not Terrible
- 16,288
- 42,321
This approach worked very well for Amalur. Also Rhode Island.
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Utnayan
I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
- 16,290
- 12,054
Except 38 bought a pretty much completed game when they bought THG and did little to nothing else besides reskin character names and finish up a few bosses.
Utnayan
I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
- 16,290
- 12,054
Erronius
Macho Ma'am
- 16,461
- 42,372
