Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

I hope they go with flatter item level curves than vg or wow have. Eq allowed for a lot of low level camping of items because those items went obsolete very slowly and a powerful item at level 30 could sometimes still be ppwerful at 50.

That or take a look at how dota handles items, where low level items are combined later into high level ones. So in mmo context camping a regen ring at lvl 10 is worth it even if that ring is useless as a ring by level 30 because you can combine it with something to make it useful again.

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out, I grew tired of the current mmo grind dungeons for tokens to spend at the vendor in town a long time ago

Creslin_sl said:

I hope they go with flatter item level curves than vg or wow have. Eq allowed for a lot of low level camping of items because those items went obsolete very slowly and a powerful item at level 30 could sometimes still be ppwerful at 50.

That or take a look at how dota handles items, where low level items are combined later into high level ones. So in mmo context camping a regen ring at lvl 10 is worth it even if that ring is useless as a ring by level 30 because you can combine it with something to make it useful again.

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Makes crafting at least somewhat relevant too.

Fuck crafting. Easily the worst part of almost every MMO I've ever played.

Unless of course you can actually make it fun. Clicking on menus 1000 times is not my cup of tea.

Aradune_sl said:

No.

There will be fewer quests. Quality over quantity. Think vanilla EQ not VG where you go from quest hub to quest hub. Probably won't be quest hubs. The fewer quests will be long involved and fun. They should yield a great reward. But you don't have to do them to advance your character.

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What do you think about quests like Crushbone belts today?

Furry_sl said:

I think eq style grinding is dead for good

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EQ style grinding depends a lot on how fun combat is when you know you're gonna win. In POTBS, dozens of people did nothing but grind NPC fleets all day. It was actually fun, because you engaged 12 enemies at once, sailed into them and blasted cannons on both sides until they were all dead. Also grouping was highly encouraged by loot multipliers, so you had a huge social aspect as well.

Pulling a single mob, beating it slowly down over the course of a minute and then pulling another while the tank gets his 20% hit points lost healed back, that's of course not going to work in 2017.

Smart to delay the kickstarter, Brad. From Crowdfund Bookie:

December 2013 saw the second-lowest total amount of dollars raised by gaming projects ($2,331,061) in the last seven months, since we began tracking such data.

I say delay it until people are getting their tax returns. People having more disposable income is probably very beneficial to your cause.

Aradune_sl said:

No.

There will be fewer quests. Quality over quantity. Think vanilla EQ not VG where you go from quest hub to quest hub. Probably won't be quest hubs. The fewer quests will be long involved and fun. They should yield a great reward. But you don't have to do them to advance your character.

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Please no quest with ? On NPCs heads. I'd rather spend time searching for them in a less obvious way. Also no gps lol. I was thinking when I was playing FF. I basically tried to embrace all those systems with the gps mini map... I don't know how anyone enjoys the game like that. You literally bury your head in the gps system and don't pay attention to the game. The focus should be on the world and not the stupid location of the 10 bear ass NPC turn in guy.

Quaid:
Is that because no one had the money (christmas presents, etc...) or because there were no really interesting projects to pledge for?

I always liked the idea of a cartography skill. No UI GPS mini map, but a map you 'draw' as you explore the world. Early WOW had this, no? I think so.... But instead of their lame gps mini map, just give a compass (TESO) + your drawn map (Vanilla WoW)

Also Convo, the thing you're forgetting about EQ is that compared to today, there were verrrry few NPCs. Finding quests wasn't that big a deal because there were fewer NPCs possible to interact with. If you tried to do that now, every time you went to a town you'd be reading 2 hours of bullshit NPC flavour text to find the available quests. Maybe giant golden ! and ? Is a bit ridiculous, but for me, a faint aura or something indicating notable NPCs would be nice.

Tauro_sl said:

Quaid:
Is that because no one had the money (christmas presents, etc...) or because there were no really interesting projects to pledge for?

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It's actually interesting, because December 2013 saw the second highest number of projects funded last year. One could assume then, that there were in fact more pledges made, but at significantly smaller amounts.

I'm pretty sure we can bank on Pantheon getting funded no matter when it launches... It'd just be nice to see it funded with as many stretch goals as possible... And that means launching at a time when people are flush with cash.

Convo_sl said:

Please no quest with ? On NPCs heads. I'd rather spend time searching for them in a less obvious way. Also no gps lol. I was thinking when I was playing FF. I basically tried to embrace all those systems with the gps mini map... I don't know how anyone enjoys the game like that. You literally bury your head in the gps system and don't pay attention to the game. The focus should be on the world and not the stupid location of the 10 bear ass NPC turn in guy.

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On the other hand i dont want to click on every NPC to discover who has a quest, its even worse when there are only very few quests available. Maps are OK as long as they dont show you every detail regarding quests/mobs/dungeons etc...

Quaid_sl said:

I always liked the idea of a cartography skill. No UI GPS mini map, but a map you 'draw' as you explore the world. Early WOW had this, no? I think so.... But instead of their lame gps mini map, just give a compass (TESO) + your drawn map (Vanilla WoW)

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The map system shouldnt be too complicated, or i will just print out a full map of the region from a fan site

Tauro_sl said:

The map system shouldnt be too complicated, or i will just print out a full map of the region from a fan site

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Oh no, not too complicated. Just like a fog of war style mapping system. You reveal areas of them while you explore a region... Press the M key to bring up your map book or whatever. Then your UI has a compass like TESO showing nearby (under 100 yards) points of interest.

The important part is just no permanent UI GPS mini map. Bothers the fuck out of me.

Another question taht bothers me a bit:

With everything being datamined even before a game is live, will there be any systems in place to make that harder? Random dungeon layouts? random mob-spawn-locations? Mobs getting harder if they are not killed after some time?

I'd like to see class path quests like in EQOA. Every 10 or so levels you were sent on a quest by your class trainer and rewarded a different ability based on what you chose (+mana regen vs max mana increase). Those were always cool and allowed some customization. Assuming stuff like that is important in the game.

A concern of mine is what will new players do 2 years down the road to catch up if the grind is a total ball breaker? I like slow leveling curves but being a new player 2 years later has to blow in games like this.

Tauro_sl said:

On the other hand i dont want to click on every NPC to discover who has a quest, its even worse when there are only very few quests available. Maps are OK as long as they dont show you every detail regarding quests/mobs/dungeons etc...

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But you don't have to click every NPC to discover a quest if questing was done differently.

In EQ you didn't care to go to the quest giver to talk to them you just killed NPCs and when they drop a quest item; you keep that. Make the quest item leads you to the NPC (for instance a letter belongs to the husband of NPC X in City Y) you looted the letter you go back to town to find the NPC if you want. THAT NPC doesn't need to have an exclamation/quest mark.

But then again I'm not a fan of quests like that. I don't mind quests like Crushbone Belts; which are repeatable "errands" actually more than quests which are there for you IF you want to but not really necessary (but don't make quests rewards us with XP please). Why do I fear quests and that exlamation mark? It's because these things are another way to restrict our freedom another form of hand holding that I despise. I'm sick of being told what to do. Instead, I want to explore and if I kill that Orc and find something then that "quest item" must give me a lead to something and I don't have to go to place X to switch a quest on, then go to place Y to kill/collect then back to place X. That system is retarded.

Few epic quests are great but I don't want GPS maps leading you exactly where you have to go and I don't want, again, exclamation marks. How do you find the quest NPC? first, you don't have to because questing is NOT the game (I will cry with joy if Brad manages to make this true). Questing should be something you want to do; not something you should do. You shouldn't be penalized for not picking up a quest (hence why I don't want them to reward XP) and if itemization was done right and level curves long enough then you shouldn't be missing out much anyway.

I think a game, to me, is far more interesting if I just decide to step out of town with friends to seek fortune and glory entering the Crypt of Doom. There, in the crypt, we will find our rewards whether by killing the bosses (to loot the items; itemization should be the game.. don't let trash mobs drop loot. Make loot rare and make loot lasts you a few weeks instead of a few hours in today's games). We can find a quest-item dropped by a named monster and if I am interested I can read more about the item. Whether the item states something (like right clicking on it it would tell you that this item seems to belong to a blacksmith of town X) or maybe make some classes able to "identify" quest items to give you more details (which increases player interdependency).

More dungeons, more content and more challenges. Less quests/errands/chores/hand-holding.... please.

Flipmode_sl said:

I'd like to see class path quests like in EQOA. Every 10 or so levels you were sent on a quest by your class trainer and rewarded a different ability based on what you chose (+mana regen vs max mana increase). Those were always cool and allowed some customization. Assuming stuff like that is important in the game.

A concern of mine is what will new players do 2 years down the road to catch up if the grind is a total ball breaker? I like slow leveling curves but being a new player 2 years later has to blow in games like this.

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loved EQ's class quest chain in just EQ with the noob armor. As for finding regular quest.. Why can't that be part of the game? Obviously the person who takes the time to explore the area will find those rare quests sooner. I'm not saying they all need to be this way. Maybe make the more important(class type) more obvious but some should be less obvious.

Convo_sl said:

loved EQ's class quest chain in just EQ with the noob armor. As for finding regular quest.. Why can't that be part of the game? Obviously the person who takes the time to explore the area will find those rare quests sooner. I'm not saying they all need to be this way. Maybe make the more important(class type) more obvious but some should be less obvious.

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More exploration required the better. I agree with you there.

Flipmode_sl said:

More exploration required the better. I agree with you there.

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Remember the early EQN leaks? With Enchanters having to find tombs and wizard needing to find some of their spells in the world.. I definitely want that to be in. I'm not saying decapitate a class by withholding it's best spells but I loved that a lot of class spelled were found adventuring in the world. It did a lot for the economy too.