Quaid
Trump's Staff
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- 8,265
Sorry, but if you haven't levelled a character in EQ to max in a decade you probably have no idea what you are talking about.
As awesome as that little rant was.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
As awesome as that little rant was.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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False dichotomy is messing with your head: Example Rift. Wow + switchable classes! Trying to re-invent the wheel with respect to classes but still a WoW clone with respect to factions (two), instances (many), loot (pi?ata).
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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zzeris
The Real Benny Johnson
- 21,269
- 93,058
Tad,
Who exactly has tried to best levels as a progression metric? Give me some good examples. Your reasoning for levels were awful as well.
*A sense of progression? Doesn't killing harder mobs do the same thing? Getting better gear, doing better things, learning your skill, etc? You just need that one easy reminder because you have Alzheimers?
*Easily identify others to group with? You mean like announcing 'cleric looking for group in Darnork's Castle. PST'? You can't just guess at the guys near the damn dungeon you want to group at? They must all be low level guys but it looks cool to hang here? Dungeons should be all about experimenting and finding out if you can actually get it done. Usually, getting killed by the first groups you meet over and over...tells you that it's time to do something else.
*Easily identify mobs you can tangle with? You mean like the original color cons of EQ? Does a level 30 Orc Captain fight like a level 30 Orc marauder? Would you think it would? Aren't there usually different metrics used to guide your decisions in these fights? Couldn't there be?
Levels are easy, tired, lazy decisions made when you are trying your best to make the next cookie cutter MMO. You like it to be old school and lazy just so that you can easily get back into the same tired games. Just because you have no imagination or desire for a game designed in 2014 to be any different than one published in 1999, doesn't mean it won't be different. Time to open those eyes and get past the fear of the new
Moving on, I find it hilarious(HILARIOUS) to listen to people bitch about instances killing immersion. Like zoning didn't kill immersion or repops kill immersion, or the guy logging off disappearing into thin air killing immersion. LOL. World dungeons would be better if done right. If you go to the front door of an orc mine(dungeon) then an assload of orcs are going to beat you down. Find the hidden tunnel, back entrance, etc. If you are going from area to area, then having the tank hold the doorway is good strategy. Not fucking sliding everything to the corner. If we want real immersion, then the stupid ways we cheated the EQ system need to go. I want the badasses to be the guys who can think, not take advantage of errors, cheats, and bad coding.
Who exactly has tried to best levels as a progression metric? Give me some good examples. Your reasoning for levels were awful as well.
*A sense of progression? Doesn't killing harder mobs do the same thing? Getting better gear, doing better things, learning your skill, etc? You just need that one easy reminder because you have Alzheimers?
*Easily identify others to group with? You mean like announcing 'cleric looking for group in Darnork's Castle. PST'? You can't just guess at the guys near the damn dungeon you want to group at? They must all be low level guys but it looks cool to hang here? Dungeons should be all about experimenting and finding out if you can actually get it done. Usually, getting killed by the first groups you meet over and over...tells you that it's time to do something else.
*Easily identify mobs you can tangle with? You mean like the original color cons of EQ? Does a level 30 Orc Captain fight like a level 30 Orc marauder? Would you think it would? Aren't there usually different metrics used to guide your decisions in these fights? Couldn't there be?
Levels are easy, tired, lazy decisions made when you are trying your best to make the next cookie cutter MMO. You like it to be old school and lazy just so that you can easily get back into the same tired games. Just because you have no imagination or desire for a game designed in 2014 to be any different than one published in 1999, doesn't mean it won't be different. Time to open those eyes and get past the fear of the new
Moving on, I find it hilarious(HILARIOUS) to listen to people bitch about instances killing immersion. Like zoning didn't kill immersion or repops kill immersion, or the guy logging off disappearing into thin air killing immersion. LOL. World dungeons would be better if done right. If you go to the front door of an orc mine(dungeon) then an assload of orcs are going to beat you down. Find the hidden tunnel, back entrance, etc. If you are going from area to area, then having the tank hold the doorway is good strategy. Not fucking sliding everything to the corner. If we want real immersion, then the stupid ways we cheated the EQ system need to go. I want the badasses to be the guys who can think, not take advantage of errors, cheats, and bad coding.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,547
- 11,831
Not having a clue about EQ for the last decade is probably a good thing. All this big-dick-swinging over EQ is taking me back.
One word: contested content!
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,411
- 188
Levels are great way to pace gameplay. You go out you adventure do your thing, level while out there then take a break, go to town sell crap, get new spells etc. ... i actually enjoyed that kinda downtime in MMOs.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
You are like the third person in the past ten pages to use the "tired" or "lazy" description for levels. I'm pretty confident none of you have actually thought it through, take your LFG example. I'm a level 20 BST I go to Kurn's Tower because I know it's in my level range. There I can hang out looking for a group and I know other people there are going to be in my level range and if I start sending tells saying where I am they'll also know roughly what level I am.
Levels are simple and clean. These are positive attributes when MMORPGS are otherwise very complex and murky.
Skill system instead of leveling system? You just get a FOTM.
Gear system instead of leveling system? It's MTG and you get the expansion problem identified above.
The other nice feature of a standard leveling system is that it mixes well with horizontal systems like AA's or EQ skills as Quaid mentioned.
I'm convinced that it is WoW's race to the endgame bullshit that has you guys down on leveling. That's WoW's problem, not the leveling system.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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zzeris
The Real Benny Johnson
- 21,269
- 93,058
Good post but I'm looking for advancement of the genre. I don't expect Brad to do too much of this considering the funding options but I think it's way past time to see some real growth. As Draegan mentioned, there really hasn't been any progression from WoW. There were the early years, the EQ years, and then WoW. Too much of WoW I agree.
Also as Lithose noted, I'd like to see developers go back and re-examine all the systems and see where to go from there. World dungeons work, if done differently than EQ. It needs to improve even if just by a little. Leveling is a tired old shoe. It still functions but are there other options that could work? Same with difficulty, etc. Easy way to reduce item issues is lowered drop rates. That works for any type of system though not just world dungeons. I want the old problems at least addressed since this will be a throwback type game. Just like WoW could have been improved upon if the basics had been kept but other things changed. I don't want Brad to limit his vision based off tradition. I hope to see some old, some new, and a lot of improvement from his last game.
movies are always watched from beginning to end with your eyes. i'm sorry, but i'm looking for some kind of progression...
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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- 601
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,411
- 188
ON difficulty... I just wonder if this game went "dark souls" with difficulty ( of course within the mechanics of this game ) ... and the game was marketed as such... would be interesting to grab that slice/niche, which is very successful in single player world.
Personally , I'm hoping for harsh death penalties in addition to mobs being able to hand you your ass if you don't pay attention.
Death should be a real possibility and should set you back besides a bullshit respawn and jump right back in.
/Cue the "penalties are no fun and not needed" whiny bitches.
This game needs to go "hardcore" and niche to have any chance of success. The plus side is some of those feature actually cost less to do.
i'm with you. without death penalties, there is absolutely no sense of danger when playing the game. when the risk doesn't mean anything, neither does the reward.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
Pretty much this. There are a lot of other games out there that with much better funding. Pantheon only succeeds as a niche game. Too bad they can't do something like EVE and put everyone on the same server (or two servers if PvE/PvP) - just wouldn't work in a fantasy game.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
Who gives a fuck what you think? You're some random internet asshole with a shitty gif for an avatar.