Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Aeiouy_sl

shitlord
217
0
Ok, so you just described the main characteristics of any high fantasy paladin character. The thing that amazes me is how people always want something "different". It is what it is. A paladin. There are thousands of high fantasy books out there that have paladin characters in them.

I don't need Brad to invent a new class. Just tell me, we got Paladins in the game. Period. End of story. Nothing else to say. I know what a paladin is already. You can call the game "Big donkey dicks with monkey poo", and if you say it has paladins in it, I and YOU know what they are talking about.
I agree with this. The two class reveals have received the most bitching. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why do hardcore serious mom players need to be sold on the idea of a cleric class or a shadow knight class called dark knight or a paladin like class. The amount of hand holding people want on some very basic information counteracts the idea of there being some knowledgable hardcore gaming contingency ready to roll. If people need in depth details to explain to them a paladin like class it does not seem the game is for them.

Being presented as a targeted niche game it would assume that niche would consist of people who don't need more than class names to figure out what is going on. It is almost like people want more detailed class layouts so they have more to bitch about and / or have gotchas to yell about when something mentioned on the KS does not show up in the game.

Reading all these posts there is nowhere close to a consensus on what kind of infotmation would satisfy everyone. The working list would be huge. In fact some of the stuff people want seem to contradict the stated objectives of the game.

I certainly understand why people might be worried about the ks and not meeting its goal. However it seems some want the ks to deceive a more casual and general audience so they can help fund it but then blow them off when it comes to game design.

To me there is enough infotmation for a hardcore player who is interested in the niche to make a $45 decision. Less targeted and more casual players or people making bigger donations certainly can be on the fence. But here we have a lot of people who say they want a hardcore niche game that brings elements of both eq and vanguard forward. For those people there is enough information to at least put up a $45 pledge at this point.

I know I am magic and special but I knew when reading through this thread and all the other information that this kickstarter was being used to actually kickstart the game. I saw them being at the very, very beginning. What perplexed me is people wondering why there was not more when the info they shared pretty clear indicated this was the very beginning of things. It was not some secret. They said they had a group of people meeting once a week or so to get things going. They never pretended like they had been coding 80 hours a week for six months.

If they don't make the goal it is highly likely the project dies right there. People still talking about do overs or relaunches, that ship has sailed. This is likely the one and only crack at this game being made. Heck it is the dummies itt who convinced me to pledge, against my better judgment.

I see no benefit to pulling my pledge and waiting now. Pulling my pledge just makes it less likely to fund. It does not help the process at all.

If you are not happy near the end of the ks then pull your pledge then. Some people think that is wrong but I dusagree. It is your money and if you decide at the end it is not for you, pulling your pledge is reasonable.

On the other hand if you pull it now and wait but it turns into something you really like you can pledge again. Only problem is if you kept your pledge in you would have helped the overall pledging to build. Pulling your pledge or lowering it to wait and see is self sabotaging. You are potentially harming the ability of ks to meet the goal with absolutely zero risk to yourself. That does not make sense to me.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,314
12,083
Kickstarters always get a ton of funding at the end. Whether it be enough to pass the 800k mark is unknown, but they will have far more than what you are claiming.
Ironically enough, sometimes this happens (The last day spike) due to the Silent Publisher putting in funds to make sure they secure the rest of the kickstarter.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
Doubtful, the PCGamer article mentioned it got repossessed.
haha no it didn't, that was the fake narriative i wrote on here as a joke, not even that funny either. just incase you believed anything else i wrote, poorly, while fairly intoxicated. his lisence plate didnt read g4m3god, and he probably isnt working out of a car port. nor does he walk around muttering 'im back baby! slash! slash!'
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
12,978
14,880
That is simply trending not a prediction. Someone posted a KS somewhere between here, the KS and PJP that showed a KS that was doing worse then this and in the last few days jumped a crazy amount to get funded. You never know what will happen, they're working on to get everything on track and listening to our feed back so honestly that site means as much as flipping a coin to see if this will fail or not.
There were very valid reasons why that KS jumped and they were explained in this thread if you want to go back. In short, those reasons aren't going to happen for Pantheon.
 

delirium_sl

shitlord
217
0
Hey guys, Still see Brad hasnt posted here recently. I know were at the consensus that they are making all this up on the fly but yesterday the whole class thing dawned on me. We have people freaking out since no Warrior is mentioned. They are assuming that the Crusader is a paladin, which I can see why one would think that, but in reality the crusader could be the warrior class. I say this because the mention the Cleric class can be in full plate which is essentially a tank type class or wearing robes and relying more on their spells which would be the more tradidional cleric role. So I have a feeling that the Paladin would be the Plate wearing cleric. Only you dont get to weild swords, but instaid maces and hammers and such.

I am still miffed there is no mention of a Necromancer class considering there is a Dark Knight who uses NECROMANCY! But They mention a Wizard and an Enchanter. Its very possible that the Wizard could have 2 paths, one being the traditional Wizard we know from EQ and the other being more like the Mage. Then Enchanter could also have 2 paths, one being your typical enchanter, the other being well, a Necro.

Won't really know until the reveals, which we should know about the crusader today, but I am guessing that is how the could have "designed" the classes.
 

Tauro

Bronze Knight of the Realm
371
26
Yeah, i guess the crusader is kind of a warrior. Will be interesting to see which 2 ways you can develop him. I like the 2 different path per class system.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
if you have any wise ideas or questions, nows the time to hit upthe pjpantheon forums and post them in the 'help!' thread
 

delirium_sl

shitlord
217
0
Yeah, i guess the crusader is kind of a warrior. Will be interesting to see which 2 ways you can develop him. I like the 2 different path per class system.
Well the DK doesnt seem to really do this, so can't say for sure, but if they are going back to D&D roots, there never was a "Necrmancer" class, you just played a Wizard who specialized in the Necromancy school.
 

Tauro

Bronze Knight of the Realm
371
26
Cleric is a good choice for 2 different specs (plate/robes), Dark Knight probably is too focused for that. Lets see the Crusader, could be a Paladin (warrior+magic) / Mercenary (100% warrior) split?
 

Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
The vast majority of items will be trade-able with exception of quest components and the like.
Not sure if I like this. I don't want to see "you can't get a quest drop until you've accepted the quest". That shoves you back onto the rails, and hurts against the "feels like a world" thing. I really enjoyed EverQuest's "hrm, this guy dropped something, what the hell is it for?" aspect. I wonder if multi-questing will be A Thing or not.
 

Tauro

Bronze Knight of the Realm
371
26
He says tradeable, i guess if a mob drop a quest item you can pick it up if you have the quest or not...
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
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Not sure if I like this. I don't want to see "you can't get a quest drop until you've accepted the quest". That shoves you back onto the rails, and hurts against the "feels like a world" thing. I really enjoyed EverQuest's "hrm, this guy dropped something, what the hell is it for?" aspect. I wonder if multi-questing will be A Thing or not.
i dont think brads statement counters the system you mentioned
 

delirium_sl

shitlord
217
0
Not sure if I like this. I don't want to see "you can't get a quest drop until you've accepted the quest". That shoves you back onto the rails, and hurts against the "feels like a world" thing. I really enjoyed EverQuest's "hrm, this guy dropped something, what the hell is it for?" aspect. I wonder if multi-questing will be A Thing or not.
Yeah but if you remember, many quest items in EQ were not trade-able, thats why we had MQ and why we had people camp the crap of the the AC to get the ring and sell the MQ for lots of PP. You couldnt trade the ring but you could MQ it. Same was true with the Sol Ro armor quest components, I remember haveing to MQ some of those cause not all the components were trade-able.
 

BankBank_sl

shitlord
83
0
Kickstarters always get a ton of funding at the end. Whether it be enough to pass the 800k mark is unknown, but they will have far more than what you are claiming.
you're stating that this kickstarter will end with "far more than" $250-300k (his estimate). what are you basing your statement on? gut feeling?
 

TragedyAnn_sl

shitlord
222
1
Sorry, did you want a bunch of buttons to push? Perhaps a button that does some damage while also knocking the mob back 2 inches, then another button that slows it 1%? Along with another 42 buttons each on a 2 minute timer?

The warrior in EQ was one of the best classes in any MMO ever for precisely the reasons you misunderstand. And the complaints you voice are exactly what have ruined modern MMOs.

Being a warrior freed you from the stupidity of whack a mole to actuallyplay the fucking game. Only warriors (and some enlightened monks) actually played EQ; everyone else pressed buttons. We were free to learn how the world worked. Warriors were free to learn how to gain or lose the attention of a mob, how to time pulls, how pathing worked, where mob spawned and the quirks of their behavior.

Meanwhile every other class (except again monks) got to sit on your ass in a corner and play the super exciting game of press the button when it popped up.
yea i just don't see what skill is involved in pressing "auto-attack" and kicking back. At least with my SK I can pretend spell rotations matter and time casting a spell in between auto-attack to increase DPS, etc.
Just sitting there watching your toon swing.....swing.....swing.... it just seems boring.
Warriors were probably the most streamlined class I have ever played in an MMPORG. It wasn't my first choice in EverQuest because it seemed so "simple". However after rolling one myself I quickly fell in love with the whole design. Auto-attack, ranged attack, bash, kick, taunt and a few discs is all a warrior needs. You don't need 50 different buttons to pull mobs and hold aggro when simply a bow and a good two-handed sword can do the job, respectively. There is also the thrill of being the "point-man" on raids that gets to be the one that stands toe-to-toe with 90% of raid bosses; while you have multiple clerics and other support classes focusing all of their efforts on just keeping you alive. The EverQuest warrior is one of the best examples of the "K.I.S.S." principle being applied to an MMORPG class and doing it well.
Thank you for the non-snarky reply. That and the RP reason someone else mentioned, makes sense. I was honestly just curious what I was missing.
The only thing that playing a warrior allowed me to do that most other classes couldn't was read Dragonlance novels.
HA! that's great
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Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
Can someone post that article for those of us with workcockblock going on, please?
tcostisi writes: What is one new mechanic are you going to try out in Pantheon that we don't already know about?

Brad McQuaid: We?re looking into ?horizontal progression,? which means fewer, but more meaningful levels. Every level is going to count and be memorable. We?re going to get more details out to you as it nears completion in the initial design phase.

Moridin82 writes: Will you able to craft legendary items?

Brad McQuaid: If we reach our stretch goal for implementing a crafting and harvesting system, or if we don?t but release the system later as part of an expansion, then absolutely yes.

Rogosh writes: Will we be able to align our character to specific deities and if so will there be deity specific abilities granted to our characters?

Brad McQuaid: Yes, we want race, class, faction, and religion to all affect your character, sometimes giving you an advantage and sometimes a disadvantage. It simply depends on where you are, who you are interacting with, and what you are up to.

Loktofeit writes: One thing I liked about Vanguard was the Diplomacy system, which allowed players to take up a viable profession in the game other than the standard genocidal maniac role. Will Pantheon also have roles that aren't centered around the kill/loot system?

Brad McQuaid: Not initially, no. Pantheon?s focus is about exploration, adventure, and combat. And, of course, building your character and equipping him or her with powerful items. Our focus may be narrow right now, but we?re looking at quality not quantity when it comes to game features and mechanics. In particular, our combat system needs to be amazingly fun. In fact, we already have an early version of it working in our prototype. It?s that important.

Other systems we may implement in the future, as stretch goals or perhaps as post-launch expansions also deserve the same careful treatment and design. As an example, we don?t want to shove a quick and dirty crafting or diplomacy system into the game just so we can say we have one in a bullet point somewhere. We want to build this game with great care and focus. We?ve all made mistakes in the past, building MMOs where we tried to include everything plus the kitchen sink. And it?s these past experiences, both negative and positive, that will allow this veteran team to develop a game that is focused first on being the most fun adventuring and exploration MMO the player has ever experienced.

objeff writes: Questing question: in recent MMOs quests usually don't take you further than the current zone. This leads to what I call the locust effect; you come in complete the zone quests then move to the next zone and repeat. Not very epic or challenging. Will we see questing that takes us across the world or take time and serious effort to complete? You know, like and adventure?
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Brad McQuaid: Many MMOs do focus on shorter quests and more quests. Usually there are multiple quest hubs, and players travel from one to another to advance. We?ve worked on games like that and while they certainly have their merit, with Pantheon we want to reach back into the past and bring forward the open worlds that were so popular. We believe many players are looking for MMOs that are more of a sandbox and less of a game that makes you feel like you?re on rails, going from one quest or story and then to the next. Pantheon will certainly have quests, but these quests will be epic. The focus will be on quality, not quantity. And doing those quests will also be optional. While they will usually reward the player quite handsomely upon completion, they won?t necessarily be essential to advance. Players should be focused on adventure and exploration first.

Mawnee writes: Will gear be level requirement and/or bind on pickup/equip? Or will there be more freedom like the original EQ had?

Brad McQuaid: Pantheon will much more like the original EverQuest when it comes to items and a player driven economy. The vast majority of items will be trade-able with exception of quest components and the like.

ste2000 writes: What about combat, slow combat like EQ or fast paced combat like modern MMOs (FFXIV, GW2, SWTOR)?

Brad McQuaid: The combat will certainly not be ?twitch? like an FPS; it will require strategic thought and planning. As you learn combat in Pantheon, you?ll figure out which abilities are most useful against specific spells and abilities enemies may use.

Question: How group mechanics works? Is there a trinity, or a 6 piece group (Tank, Healer, DPS, Buffer, Puller, Crowd Controller)?

Brad McQuaid: You will see a return to having defined roles per class, and you?ll want those roles in your group. There will be healers, tanks, DPS classes, buffers, pullers and crowd control. How you make up your group is entirely up to you, and that?s where the strategic element comes into play. Maybe you can try a non-conventional group to see if you can make it work; or maybe you prefer to do a classic style approach and stick to having a little of everything. We expect our players are going to be the ones that are figuring out the strategies that work best.

Question: Armor and Equipment will be racially based, class based or Universal for everyone?

Brad McQuaid: It really depends on the item. There will be all of the above. Some items may work better for some races or classes or even be restricted to that race or class. Other items may be restricted based on the character?s religion or faction as well.

Question: Will crafting require inter-dependency, example being an Armorer needs to get leather from a Tailor?

Brad McQuaid: We?re just not at that stage yet where we can give a whole lot of detail on crafting as we?re currently focused on the creation of the other core elements. We realize the popularity and importance of crafting, but until we are able to commit the resources that it deserves, we just don?t have any more information on its details.

Question: Is crafting a game in itself or just another feature which every player can master (like in every Themepark)?

Brad McQuaid: If we are able to implement a crafting and harvesting system, either as a stretch goal or a post-launch expansion feature, it will be well thought out and sophisticated. But, again, until we reach those levels where we can afford to put the attention on crafting that it deserves, we simply don?t have details.

Question: Will economy be based on Crafting items or Loot drops?

Brad McQuaid: Initially the player driven economy will be based on loot and money drops. Crafting items will be interjected into the economy when we are able to implement it.

Razeekster writes: Is there anything special that you are doing for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen that will interest role players? Me and some friends of mine lament about the fact that most developers forget about role players, so it would be interesting to hear if Pantheon is going to be different in this aspect.

Brad McQuaid: We know the importance of getting the player involved in the game, and that sort of thing is accomplished through the details. Player involvement is a big thing in our game so we will constantly be looking at ways to make the player feel they are part of the world, and not just playing another game.

i dont think brads statement counters the system you mentioned
Nah, but it made it sound like all quest items would be no drop (EQ had a mix). All quest items being no drop was a trend started with WoW, so that's what I associate it with. There's no real reason for me to assume that's what he meant - just one of those gut reactions that scares me.