Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

DickTrickle_sl said:

Something like an extra bag is not, but we all have different definitions.

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If you don't have to go to town to bank as often so can exp more, that's pay to win, too, then?

At least be consistent.

I thought the problem with the hero essence add-on was that I'm not even sure what it is:

"$25 - Hero Essence Grab Bag - Open this mystery bag to win a random hero essence template."

It doesn't say you're getting a hero essence. It says you're getting a template. You might have to get the templates in game (by reading lore or some shit) so you know what essences you'll need to fill out the entire hero ability or some shit. Just don't know.

By now, though, I don't really give a shit if a game lets people buy vanity stuff from a cash shop, or even most convenience items. As long as the convenience items aren't only available in the cash shop, I don't really care. I'll get it in game, eventually, and all the fucktards buying shit I'm getting in game will help fund future content.

Boozecube_sl said:

I am starting to think you don't know what an Alpha is like. Most people aren't going to want to play it even if 6,000 people have access to it.

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So you're under the impression that people are going to pay for something 18-22 months in advance, and then not try to consume that product in the first 24 hours of its availability? Whether they want to 'alpha test' or not isn't the issue. They are gonna want to hold what they bought in their hands. Concurrency rates are gonna be massive in that first week, and they need to be prepared.

But it's all crystal balling at this point.

popsicledeath_sl said:

If you don't have to go to town to bank as often so can exp more, that's pay to win, too, then?

At least be consistent.

I thought the problem with the hero essence add-on was that I'm not even sure what it is:

"$25 - Hero Essence Grab Bag - Open this mystery bag to win a random hero essence template."

It doesn't say you're getting a hero essence. It says you're getting a template. You might have to get the templates in game (by reading lore or some shit) so you know what essences you'll need to fill out the entire hero ability or some shit. Just don't know.

By now, though, I don't really give a shit if a game lets people buy vanity stuff from a cash shop, or even most convenience items. As long as the convenience items aren't only available in the cash shop, I don't really care. I'll get it in game, eventually, and all the fucktards buying shit I'm getting in game will help fund future content.

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If getting an extra bag isn't something you can do until you're high level and then it takes a long time, sure. Please, let's not pretend the world is binary.

You're right, though, no one knows what that is because they never explained it. I'm speculating off information, which I've repeatedly made clear (and is no different than everyone else speculating, like the KS comments -- mine just isn't positive).

One problem with cash shops, though, and GW2 is a GREAT example of this, is that dev time is then put on doing stuff to make the cash shop more attractive. Part of the whole point of a sub, in my mind, is so the money/time goes into the game without wasting time/effort on cash shop attractions.

If a cash shop is important/necessary to the long term financial success and developer support of a game that I love, then I'm all for it.

Slacker242_sl said:

I call bullshit on 75% blame being on Brad and how this KS was delivered. His team could have put together a far superior KS presentation and still not made the number. Pantheon is not just a niche game. Games like Pantheon are a niche of niche games.

Nostalgia here seems to trump the reality that there are so few gamers who give a rats ass about a game in the spirit of EQ. Wait.. there are 2,065 of you.

I hope he just changes tactics and makes a little game for a few $$ and has some fun. I will play.

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Don't be dumb. A Kickstarter project doesn't have to only appeal to the few gamers who care about the project. That's what a final product does (and still not exclusively as plenty of people are willing to try out something they also see sure they won't ultimately like). The purpose of any proposal or presentation is to say "This project is important because...." You don't lead with the fucking product, but the reasoning and importance behind the campaign. Which is why there are plenty of projects being funded that, whether through deceit or their own ignorance, probably isn't want many of the backers even want. And if you start looking at people's profiles, many projects get help because there are a lot of fucking people who seem to just enjoy supporting Kickstarters as a form of charity. Not to mention the amount of support one can get from people not passionate about the project, but who have a healthy respect for the effort. In short, a Kickstarter of this nature isn't about convincing your ready-made fans to give their support, but anyone else.

Hateyou_sl said:

Even if it had 5-8000 total people they will not have high concurrency

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What's your reasoning behind that statement?

I dont know about "normal" mmo-servers, but in EVE its about max. 20% of all subscribers online at any time. Granted, first week would see more traffic, but they could simply add another server, should be cheap enough for 1 month, after that consolidate...

Tauro_sl said:

I dont know about "normal" mmo-servers, but in EVE its about max. 20% of all subscribers online at any time. Granted, first week would see more traffic, but they could simply add another server, should be cheap enough for 1 month, after that consolidate...

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Yeah, but imagine that in an alpha with maybe a few playable zones at most. Most MMOs today can't handle multiple hundreds, let alone a thousand people in a single zone.

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:

Except it shouldn't be viewed as a gamble because the real investors who are going to fund it won't be looking at it as one. If they were serious and passionate about the game and want it to be made more should have been done before asking people for money.

You will lose your money and get zero return on it, that is what there is to lose. Not only that but you will be thrownig money away on people and a project that should have been done correctly and successful if due diligence was done.

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Thanks mom.

DickTrickle_sl said:

Sure, say it's necessary, just don't say it's not P2W. It could be a big power improvement or not, can't say without more details, but it's still P2W.

Surprised there's no exp potions yet.

Edit: Does seem to be helping. Nearly 9K today and it's only 9am CST. Very few new backers so it's people adding in.

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So if I write a ten million dollar check to fund the game and the developers give me a one off pair of "Psnties of Piety" is that pay to win?

I think giving out rewards to build and finance the game is a lot different than having a pay store anyone can pony up to after release and pay to win.

Don't tread on my panties of piety

DickTrickle_sl said:

Sure, say it's necessary, just don't say it's not P2W. It could be a big power improvement or not, can't say without more details, but it's still P2W.

Surprised there's no exp potions yet.

Edit: Does seem to be helping. Nearly 9K today and it's only 9am CST. Very few new backers so it's people adding in.

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Convo_sl said:

Haha things have gone south again! It's funny that always happens after they make some positive changes. A lot of us wanted them to do add ons.

Game isn't ptw. Brad said it would be sub based. Those bitching need to get over the bank space and essence. You can't not support this game and expect to be entitled to all the things the people who do.. Being upset means you're worried there is a chance you're wrong and the game will launch. Stop making something out of nothing for the sake of being negative.

About the design doc... Is that a common thing for games to post? I've never seen one. Serious question.

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Uty thinks if he says "design doc"'enough someone will care like it is 2006.

Aeiouy_sl said:

I think giving out rewards to build and finance the game is a lot different than having a pay store anyone can pony up to after release and pay to win.

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You're right it is different. You have to know about the KS, you have to get in on time and then you have an item nobody else can ever get (theoretically). Instead of giving them money to continue working on the game you are giving them money to continue working on a game that might never get released. By the way that was all laden with sarcasm in case you couldn't sniff it out.

DickTrickle_sl said:

Sure, say it's necessary, just don't say it's not P2W. It could be a big power improvement or not, can't say without more details, but it's still P2W.

Surprised there's no exp potions yet.

Edit: Does seem to be helping. Nearly 9K today and it's only 9am CST. Very few new backers so it's people adding in.

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Chakravartin_sl said:

If a brown bear shits in the woods and nobody is around to see it, is there too much brown?

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No but there is fucking rabies which sucks.

Aeiouy_sl said:

Uty thinks if he says "design doc"'enough someone will care like it is 2006.

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You just made his Notes(tm). You're dead meat now.

DickTrickle_sl said:

Sure, say it's necessary, just don't say it's not P2W. It could be a big power improvement or not, can't say without more details, but it's still P2W.

Surprised there's no exp potions yet.

Edit: Does seem to be helping. Nearly 9K today and it's only 9am CST. Very few new backers so it's people adding in.

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ZyyzYzzy_sl said:

So I guess we are forever doomed with the presence of WoWHead and video strats from here on out.

Second question, how many eight balls does $800k buy?

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I think i heard oxys are like $1 a miligram or whatever. So one 90 is $90. Get 90 in a bottle and you would have to pay like 37865

Aeiouy_sl said:

So if I write a ten million dollar check to fund the game and the developers give me a one off pair of "Psnties of Piety" is that pay to win?

I think giving out rewards to build and finance the game is a lot different than having a pay store anyone can pony up to after release and pay to win.

Don't tread on my panties of piety

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I get they have to do what it takes to make the game. If no cash shop eventually shows up, then the proportion of backers with advantage will be small enough so as not to be that big of a deal.

K13R_sl said:

That makes you uneasy of all the things to be uneasy about.

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That was just what made me uneasy recently, in an attempt to not bitch about the same thing for two weeks straight (without a new reason to bring it back up, at least...)

popsicledeath_sl said:

Don't be dumb. A Kickstarter project doesn't have to only appeal to the few gamers who care about the project. That's what a final product does (and still not exclusively as plenty of people are willing to try out something they also see sure they won't ultimately like). The purpose of any proposal or presentation is to say "This project is important because...." You don't lead with the fucking product, but the reasoning and importance behind the campaign. Which is why there are plenty of projects being funded that, whether through deceit or their own ignorance, probably isn't want many of the backers even want.

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You can spin this how you want but any spin doesn't change the simple fact that there isn't enough interest to even make this game. What could have been the "reasoning and importance"? To please a few thousand people who want a game that is closer to EQ than anything has done lately? That is really all he has.

To be honest I am not against a game like this. I enjoyed EQ a lot and Alpha/Beta'd VG and played through release. I am also a realist. No way this game works today sorry.