Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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613
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Wow... it was a joke, a tongue-in-cheek self-deprecating joke. Nothing more.

Tough room.
Serious question man.. I'd like to know this from Bertox too. Do you guys list Vangaurd on your resume? Not sure how relevant a question it is, but do you think working on that project helps you or hurts you more with a new employer?
 

Denaut

Trump's Staff
2,739
1,279
Serious question man.. I'd like to know this from Bertox too. Do you guys list Vangaurd on your resume? Not sure how relevant a question it is, but do you think working on that project helps you or hurts you more with a new employer?
I absolutely do. I learned a lot working on that game and am proud of what I did. I don't consider it a mark of shame in any way, and in general don't hesitate to talk about my experiences there even in a public space like this. I can be even more candid in person
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skrala

Silver Knight of the Realm
316
53
From my perspective, I was in the earliest stages of Alpha, when there were only 4 chunks available to play, and the game was pretty fun even with that limited content. The combat system was completely different than what was released even for early Beta and, quite frankly, it sounds more like the system they have in mind for Pantheon. It was a good system and was very unique. I much preferred it to the more WoW like system that replaced it, but I understand their reasons for doing so. My hope is that Pantheon's combat follows the vision of the original Vanguard combat. It was really smooth. It will, however, take a lot of iteration and playing around with to get it just right for a group setting since it hasn't been done.

If you mean performance wise, I never had any real issues with performance in VG, but I had a very good system at the time and there were only about 6 people playing consistently each night, so my experiences performance wise were probably different than the early / late beta testers. I can't really speak to that.
Not sure if I played the original combat system, when I got in everything was a complete mess. I don't have the old emails, but I know I got in in December, I'm guessing 05? I don't think it was 04, that would have been too early. I remember being incredulous over the stuff Brad was posting on FoH vs what I was playing in game. An old EQ guild member was one of the devs, I honestly felt bad talking to him about it.
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,656
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Just looking over the KS page (another dead funding day btw) and although they've add a lot of stuff since the beginning, it still looks very amateur and basic compared to some other projects. I think they really screwed up on the tiers and because of this, they've had to go out of their way to explain the differences which just makes it more confusing. Plus the fact now there are addon's, where only mentioned in two different places (not listed at all on the main page), it just seems like a jumbled mess in some areas. If I was someone new coming to that page, I'd be confused as hell as probably just walk away anyway. I'd then go to their website, see that it's very basic on info there (half the links redirect to the KS page) and leave.

The bad thing is at this point I'm not sure they can fix it without redesigning the whole thing from the beginning. I think people have made up their mind.
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
I still think the game looks pretty promising. But doesn't look good for them making their KS threshold.
 

Oloh_sl

shitlord
298
0
Noone ever really gives an explicit description of what it was, how it worked - can you fill us in?
It worked like this at its core:

1. Every weapon had a swing speed just like normal MMOS, if you just walked up to a mob and hit attack with a 2 hander, you would hit it, wait 1.5 or so seconds to hit it again with an autoattack. Most of your "abilities" were the WoW "on next hit" type ability, so that for example, your "mace stun" ability would convert your next autoattack into a stun. There were exceptions to this of course, with attacks that reset your swing timer or went off independently of your swing timer, but in general your attacks were centered around your swing timer. Your swing time was visible as basically a reverse casting bar each attack.

2. When you pressed an ability that was "on next hit" it was queued up and displayed to anyone that targeted you. In PvP, you could, therefore, see the opposing players swing timer and see what attack they had queued up. You could queue an attack up at any time prior to your swing timer, so you could, for example, wait until the last minute and queue the stun, or queue the stun earlier to try to bait some response, then swap it out with another action before your swing timer went off. It was not in the game before they removed the system, but I was told by folks making it that some classes, like a rogue would be able to disguish their next attack or feign another attack.

3. The last part of the component was that mobs showed their next attack in advance too. So, instead of "block" being a %chance, you would be fighting something, and it would hit you with like auto, auto, then it would Q up a giant strike. If you used a block skill on the small attack, the big attack would wreck you, so you would have to eat the little attacks and hit the little attack, and then queue up your block so that it ate the hard hitting one. I was the tank for our little group and I remember fighting in the first dungeon....I think it was called Khegor's End....and there was a bugged Mob that'ss big attack would perma root you until you logged out. We called it the fail mob, because if I failed to block correctly, it was basically a restart of the dungeon.

Anyway, you can probably extrapolate how it went from that basic system. You would see what "cards" the other mob was playing and by knowing the type of mob, you would know his "deck" generally. This might not sound too innovative with all of the action combat stuff and mob "tells" etc, but it was very novel for its time and could still work if they don't want to go the action combat route. Anyway, it was a good system and I am a pretty harsh critic of combat systems generally.
 

Drakonar

Molten Core Raider
28
0
@Oloh: I think I remember you describing that combat as "like ice skating." It was interesting. My main complaint about it was that you had to be so focused on the queue bar that that was all the game screen you actually saw during combat. Also, it would drive the 'twitchers' absolutely bonkers.

Not sure changing it to the common denominator combat system we have in most games was the best choice, but in the long run it was better than the q-bar, imo.
 

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
48,319
284,670
Just looking over the KS page (another dead funding day btw) and although they've add a lot of stuff since the beginning, it still looks very amateur and basic compared to some other projects. I think they really screwed up on the tiers and because of this, they've had to go out of their way to explain the differences which just makes it more confusing. Plus the fact now there are addon's, where only mentioned in two different places (not listed at all on the main page), it just seems like a jumbled mess in some areas. If I was someone new coming to that page, I'd be confused as hell as probably just walk away anyway. I'd then go to their website, see that it's very basic on info there (half the links redirect to the KS page) and leave.

The bad thing is at this point I'm not sure they can fix it without redesigning the whole thing from the beginning. I think people have made up their mind.
That's the thing so many of these guys just can't get. You can dive into the semantics of how Vanguard went or how great EQ was but aside from the people here nobody fucking cares. When Joe the accountant, Suzy the school teacher, Alex the ex-wow player, or even good ole Little Timmy stumbles across this Kickstarter it looks like a giant cluster of confusing shit, there are lots of interviews talking about shit she/he doesn't care about or even know what they are babbling about half the time. The tiers don't really make sense you need a chart to even navigate it, they don't really care about getting a make believe ring in a world that doesn't exist as a bonus. These people are whom a professional kickstarter and a clear message would of served best but no matter how many times we say it, it just doesn't get through.

Some of the more die hard tards here can't fathom the idea that they average person hasn't thrown barrels of money at this thing and it's hard to understand the logic. They think "I love EQ + Brad made EQ = I love Brad" which isn't the same thing. That's ok as long as they are fine throwing money on mythical backpacks on a game that either won't see the light of day or will be so awful that nobody wants to play it. "Really look over all the suggestions of how the game should be from people like Dumar and tell me this game will appeal to more than 6 people if they have influence."

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The fact that we are still talking about the Game and asking for details on it is retarded. They have already said who knows how many times that they were making this shit up on the fly. The idea that they are "playing their game" right now is bullshit and Brad is known to lie about shit for the masses to hype, and he does need to provide hype. I said this before if he wants this to fund he needs to lie at this point, otherwise this shit isn't going to make it out of the gate. Even so the main post some of us have been posting for 500+ pages now is that there is no game and this 800k isn't funding a game it's funding their studio, it's funding their office equipment and payroll, so number of people who can't seem to grasp that is fucking amazing. Brad even said he is going to start working super hard once they get some money and hire people. "Money now, Work later". Yet people are still so fucking gaga over EQ they are foaming at the mouth to fellate Brad and throw money at him, it's almost impressive.

People are discussing lore and mechanics and two paragraph descriptions on classes rogues, who are "assassin" who "backstab from the shadows" like they are fucking impressed, are you serious? Rogues, backstab and assassinate people with dagger from behind?

He might as well of posted this on the front and center of his kickstarter and said I want to base an MMO off this, at least then he would have some concept art to show people and some details about classes, and I tell you what that idea would be fucking golden if he didn't already do it 15 years earlier.

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Others have pointed out how him and his team have been busting their ass doing interviews and nine guy supervising the one asian workhorse Vu Nguyen doing all the actual work, which is almost at hilarious levels of stereotypical racism. Yeah these guys have been "busy" I guess but again you are fucking suppose to, it's their fucking job, since when do we praise people for doing their fucking job? If people have any ounce of self respect they would pull their fucking pledges and give it to someone who deserves it, I am sure the white knights will hop up and bitch at me again for pointing this out but really deep down they fucking know that this shit is true.
 

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
48,319
284,670
I still think the game looks pretty promising. But doesn't look good for them making their KS threshold.
This is kind of what I mean, I am going to ask this and I am being fully serious and not condescending at all. Can you please in detail explain to me what exactly is so promising? Enlighten me on what you actually see when you go to the kickstarter that I am missing? Did you see some design docs that make you feel like this will be a rich world with a robust combat system? Did you see some amazing lore that makes you feel like this game will be engaging on so many levels that we will be blown away? What exactly is there that you think is looking pretty promising?
 

JarekStorm_sl

shitlord
116
0
It worked like this at its core...
That sounds similar to SWG's pre cu combat, but worse heh. I enjoyed pre cu swg combat, but this sounds kind of tedious and frustrating.

I suppose you'd have to play it get a real feel for the system, but that just does not sound very fun to me.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Booze- when you realize that your standards are different from someone backing this project, for whatever reason.. You'll be better off. I don't think people are as naive as you think. They are just throwing caution to the wind. Personally there are 2 games that interest me. Pantheon and EQN. Thats why I only post in those threads. Am I suppose to stop talking about pantheon bc you don't like that we talk about pantheon? Lol wtf?? The little info we do have, interest me more than a ton of other games in this forum. I don't know how many times I have to say there is a lot of blind faith in this. We get it dude. JFC
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,656
1,382
Well I don't think the hardcore fan wants the average gamer in this game anyway. That's why you keep seeing the word 'niche' being thrown around. The problem is if you are too niche, it may cause issues. Like trying to crowdfund your game.

Booze- when you realize that your standards are different from someone backing this project, for whatever reason.. You'll be better off. I don't think people are as naive as you think. They are just throwing caution to the wind. Personally there are 2 games that interest me. Pantheon and EQN. Thats why I only post in those threads. Am I suppose to stop talking about pantheon bc you don't like that we talk about pantheon? Lol wtf?? The little info we do have interest me more than a ton of other games in this forum. I don't how many times I have to say there is a lot of blind faith in this. We get it dude. JFC
I'm wondering, judging by the EQN thread that maybe that's kind of stealing the spotlight on Pantheon (what little spotlight there was)?
 

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
48,319
284,670
Booze- when you realize that your standards are different from someone backing this project, for whatever reason.. You'll be better off. I don't think people are as naive as you think. They are just throwing caution to the wind. Personally there are 2 games that interest me. Pantheon and EQN. Thats why I only post in those threads. Am I suppose to stop talking about pantheon bc you don't like that we talk about pantheon? Lol wtf?? The little info we do have interest me more than a ton of other games in this forum. I don't how many times I have to say there is a lot of blind faith in this. We get it dude. JFC
I don't think my standards are set so high here, all I wanted to something honest and direct and thought thru, I guess I am just amazed that other's standards as so low that those things are considered unreasonable to ask for. Who told you to stop talking about it? I have been talking about the game as well, it's fair to comb over ideas but when you take a step back you might realize yourself that any specifics about the game, any minor details are still a little premature.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Well I don't think the hardcore fan wants the average gamer in this game anyway. That's why you keep seeing the word 'niche' being thrown around. The problem is if you are too niche, it may cause issues. Like trying to crowdfund your game.



I'm wondering, judging by the EQN thread that maybe that's kind of stealing the spotlight on Pantheon (what little spotlight there was)?
I think EQL has certainly took some spotlight off this. They are getting backers, it's just nothing insane. This KS will mostly rely on people upping their pledges. I want it to happen for a few reason, the first being I want to see a game like this in the market.. Secondly, I want to see how much this team can do with 800k. I think that will determine their long term fate. If it's underwhelming, it will never get the support needed!
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
12,972
14,879
Been away from this thread for a week and it's funny coming back and seeing people who have since flipped sides, especially those who were big Brad defenders before.
 

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
48,319
284,670
Well I don't think the hardcore fan wants the average gamer in this game anyway. That's why you keep seeing the word 'niche' being thrown around. The problem is if you are too niche, it may cause issues. Like trying to crowdfund your game.

I'm wondering, judging by the EQN thread that maybe that's kind of stealing the spotlight on Pantheon (what little spotlight there was)?
Well EQN will probably draw a fair bit of attention. It could turn out to be something really cool, and Landmark is slightly interesting, although if you check out some of the streams on twitch for it the one thing that stands out pretty badly is how sterile everything is. The graphics are pretty good and it seems to run smooth but there's a certain level of plastic looking characters, or uncanny valleyness to it that feels off.
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,656
1,382
I'd love to hear what expectations some of the backers have for this game. Not what Brad says, but what the gamer expects. How low is the bar? How limited can the game be that you would be ok with? How much content would be ok? What can he not deliver on that bullet point list that you still would be ok with?