Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

blank_sl said:

Is this standard practice among AAA creators? Small dev shops too? Was this a thing of the past or is it still the working business model? If what you're saying is true, what is the reasoning? It's like a hybrid attempt of giving equity in a startup, but the value of startups grow, so you get smaller shares of a bigger pie - but with this model when you have a project that may cost 100 million with dev+marketing, so they give royalties to incentivize down the road? Is there a vesting schedule? Is there a threshold that box sales have to reach before you start earning your royalty? What would a royalty payout structure look like? 1% for the CEO, .01% for a junior developer? I can't believe this would be standard practice.

Also how would this be taxed, just like a yearly bonus? Do developers get yearly bonuses ontop of the royalty as well?

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I've worked at five studios so far over 16 years and two of them I've gotten royalties off of sales, two I was working on projects that hadn't shipped yet but I did get a yearly bonus. It varies from company to company. Bonuses/royalties are used for retention probably like any other company out there that gives bonuses. Taxes on bonuses always seem like 45-50% but I might just be hating on the IRS. It's taxed enough to look at it and make you say wtf.

I don't know if that model is still setup at SOE, I left in 2006. I'm not exactly sure how the royalties were divided up being just an associate designer but I'm sure it was a trickle down effect considering some departments outside of development didn't qualify for it even though they technically worked on the project. What ever trickled down to me wasn't a huge amount and it was definitely based off sales because it was different every time. I would assume it was a small % of the sales divided up into a pool which was further divided up by your pay grade, those details never were explained to me.

FWIW, I've worked with developers that have told me they have never received a bonus before. So there really is no standard and it depends on the studio you work for.

Sony is paying royalties to everyone who mentions EQ in this thread.

45k would be impressive if he were a no-name indie dev living in Montana. A no-name could reliably repeat the scam at least a few times. There are no-names that do exactly that.

45k is abject failure for an established name living in San Diego.

The main thing to consider is that he literally sold his name. And it was worth 45k. He's pared it down to the people that will continue to give him money no matter what. It is important to observe that there are not very many of them, and they won't be capable of providing free money for very long. He was tellin' people to max out their fucking credit cards.

What he has left are people who, by definition, are even crazier than Dumar.

Dumar is the sane one.

Schags_sl said:

I've worked at five studios so far over 16 years and two of them I've gotten royalties off of sales, two I was working on projects that hadn't shipped yet but I did get a yearly bonus. It varies from company to company. Bonuses/royalties are used for retention probably like any other company out there that gives bonuses. Taxes on bonuses always seem like 45-50% but I might just be hating on the IRS. It's taxed enough to look at it and make you say wtf.

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Your WITHHOLDINGS are temporarily higher (as in, one pay check), but it all shakes out at the end of the year when you file taxes, since it's treated as normal income. What usually happens is you just end up with a larger refund (or owe less) than usual. The only reason your withholdings jump up is because each paycheck is considered in isolation when withholdings are determined, and withholdings for THAT paycheck are based upon the assumption that every paycheck that year looks like that and thus you make X amount per year, when obviously you aren't pulling that in every pay period. It's the same with some gambling winnings where the casino is required to withhold a % of your winnings and send them to the IRS, even if you have enough gambling losses to zero out your winnings that very same day in the same casino.

Sorry for the derail, it's a pretty common concern I hear a lot.

<insertThe More You Know!>

Iannis_sl said:

He was tellin' people to max out their fucking credit cards.

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Say what now? Where can I see him saying this, because - everything else notwithstanding - I just have a hard time believing it.

OneofOne_sl said:

Say what now? Where can I see him saying this, because - everything else notwithstanding - I just have a hard time believing it.

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I am not sure if Brad said that either, but I do know that towards the end of the KS, I remember PD posting that Brad should pull the KS instead of letting it finish. The crazies responded by telling people to sign up for new credit cards and max them out to drive the final pledge amount up.

I don't remember him specifically asking people to max their credit cards. He did say that he wanted people to reach deep after someone made a comment about putting up a few weeks worth of money. The stance has always been to give all you can. He promoted and liked the comment where the person said they were giving the majority of their living to the project. This freak show isn't just sad, it hurt and continues to hurt people. Some of them are unemployed, some are disabled and some make minimum wage. This isn't stealing from corporate fucks, it's stealing from struggling misguided fucks. It's sickening on every level.

Surely Rhode Island have a little spare cash to help a brother out after selling all those aeron chairs?

Now I think you all are being unfair. Great Fathers name was worth a lot more than the 45K he took. Be honest, that Shitstarter he put out was nothing but his name and it got around150K. That's more than most of us could do and a nice fuck you to the old EQ and VG fan base. May he live 10,000 years!

Frenzic_sl said:

This isn't stealing from corporate fucks, it's stealing from struggling misguided fucks. It's sickening on every level.

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The PTL of the gaming world.

Canadian_sl said:

Now I think you all are being unfair. Great Fathers name was worth a lot more than the 45K he took. Be honest, that Shitstarter he put out was nothing but his name and it got around150K. That's more than most of us could do and a nice fuck you to the old EQ and VG fan base. May he live 10,000 years!

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He actually got over 300k (Or 400k I cannot remember)...his problem was he set the goal too high.

Otherwise he would be swimming in cashage!

Jimbolini_sl said:

He actually got over 300k (Or 400k I cannot remember)...his problem was he set the goal too high.

Otherwise he would be swimming in cashage!

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This is true but I think the 150k the site produced was more representative of the true donation. It was obvious the Shitstarter wasn't going to fund so it got a little inflated to try to falsify the amount of legitimate interest in the game.

Canadian_sl said:

This is true but I think the 150k the site produced was more representative of the true donation. It was obvious the Shitstarter wasn't going to fund so it got a little inflated to try to falsify the amount of legitimate interest in the game.

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This would make sense if there had been a large surge in donations near the end of the KS.

Gavinrad_sl said:

This would make sense if there had been a large surge in donations near the end of the KS.

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Perhaps it's my own personal bias that doesn't accept that KS number based on what was shown.

Convo_sl said:

For what it's worth.. Brad would only get royalties for EQ If he was employed by SoE...

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Confirmed by SoE employee.. Suck a fatty blank!

HUEHUEHUE Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen progress video 6/17/2014

pointyboot_sl said:

HUEHUEHUE Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen progress video 6/17/2014

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No offense to any of them but I have students, mind you I teach Advanced Technology Classes for Juniors and Seniors in High School, who do this in a matter of days in Unity. Seriously, I have said next to nothing in regards to their progress and the work (screenshots/videos) they have released to the public but I see 16-18 year olds crank out better stuff quicker. To think, one of the founding members of one of the greatest online games ever made is pretty much working with whatever that video is....

So before anyone is impressed, and i'm sure no one on this board is, with this video... please ask someone or watch some Unity videos. These guys are moving at a snails pace at best.

That walk animation is terrible

Race: Wizard
Class: Human

This is quality stuff! (also, this is the same damn exact area we've been seeing in stills for months now. This is fucking sad. This is sadder than sad, just pathetic)