Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Void

Void

Experiencer
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I can't keep up with that other thread, but the part I'm confused about is how Brad got to keep the Kickstarter money when it didn't reach its goal. Isn't it Kickstarter policy that no one is charged if it fails? What am I missing here? I understand the "donations" straight to the site/Brad's pocket, but how did he get away with taking money he wasn't supposed to get at all?
 
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Salshun_sl

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Tuco_sl said:
There's a thread somewhere with the details but basically over the years she scammed a few users into giving her money, xboxes(??) and prescription medication.
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She seemed loving. Or at least she did calling me at 3AM wondering if I knew if Enigmatic had killed himself. She might have been just psycho.
 
Jysin

Jysin

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He didn't get any Kickstarter money. They ~150k people are talking about were the direct donations from the Pantheon website.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Salshun_sl said:
She seemed loving. Or at least she did calling me at 3AM wondering if I knew if Enigmatic had killed himself. She might have been just psycho.
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She was nuts. And was probably targeting your wallet.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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I had an absolute blast with the meltdown of FoH, I mean I wasn't rooting for it to go down. It we had our laughs, we had our tears. It was just a flesh wound.

I am pro Requiem all the way. Good guy who tried and cared as much as any person can do for zero gratitude. I said some shit sure but I would have said the same to my grandmother in that situation.
 
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Raidan_EQ_sl

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Beck;736100 said:
Now to Raidan_EQ comments. .

Now why don't they go after brad? Their contract is with VRI. If they sue VRI and win what do they get? Nothing. VRI has no money because it has no income and now that Brad has switched it from buying packages to donations he can pocket directly all the money people are sending and be accountable for none of it. That is why there are no physical items in the shop anymore. However, by law he must still produce those physical real world items people paid for as part of the kick starter after show deal because the physical items have no impact on the game in any way and were part of a purchase agreement, it's part of the reason I got my charge back approved among other things. Likely people would have to do a class action to see any of their money back if they were not as savvy as I was and again it is going to be against VRI NOT Brad, he is free and clear and at most he dissolves the company because of bad "credit" and no one gets jack.

That is why the developers are not suing him. They couldn't win a dime if they won a dime. Brad has likely siphoned all the cash out of VRI in dividends and bonuses to its employee and all the fun tax loop holes as well. He is delusional, not completely stupid. I would guess he had some practice or some coaching. Also as I said before, whistle blowing is not seen as a positive career move in the gaming industry.

As always, a long drawn out rant that has grains of truth that you try to distort to validate your points. All the developers could have still sued both Brad and VRI. Brad for supposed personal fraudlent actions on not fulfilling said contracts and VRI to pay for the contracts. If the courts determined Brad's actions were a direct result, then his assets could be sold to pay for the contracts if VRI didn't have the cash. Something a simple google search could have taught you. Here's a few links for you since a web search appears difficult.

Piercing the Corporate Veil: When LLCs and Corporations May be at Risk | Nolo.com

Can I Be Sued Personally if I Am an S Corporation? | LegalZoom: Legal Info

Can a customer sue me personally even if I am incorporated? - Avvo.com

So again, either A. They're too lazy like the shit work they produced on the whole project to actually sueORB. They're complaining because they were too naive to sign a contract and now feel butthurt they weren't paid what they felt justified.
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iannis

iannis

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Vvoid_sl said:
I can't keep up with that other thread, but the part I'm confused about is how Brad got to keep the Kickstarter money when it didn't reach its goal. Isn't it Kickstarter policy that no one is charged if it fails? What am I missing here? I understand the "donations" straight to the site/Brad's pocket, but how did he get away with taking money he wasn't supposed to get at all?
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He had supporters re-pledge to his PayPal account after, like the hour after, the kickscatter failed.

And the damfools did it while paying an extra fee for the privilege.

The kickstarter total was higher. Didn't the KS Carl out somewhere in the 300k range?
 
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Beck_sl

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or C they would like to continue to work in their chosen field. because as I said, whistle blowing is frowned upon and gets you black listed.

I am a Canadian, I don't know corporate law in the U.S. and I don't have the time to study up on it. As far as I understand it they would have no success with suing Brad if their contracts are with VRI. The NDA I signed was with VRI and not Brad so I am guessing his ass is covered.

They are moving on, some of them are in deep financially and can't afford to hire a lawyer.

As to your links #1 is no guarantee. It is taking a chance, a chance that costs money, that a judge would see it their way. We already know Brad likes to twist information. More than enough evidence of it.

#2 - says nothing special and is about liability not much there worth noting.

The Dev's were not customers so link #3 is null

No matter how much white washing you do around here I'm still not buying your points. I have had conversations with the devs about this and some have consulted lawyers. They know their odds of winning and they are good. Problem is they wouldn't likely get anything our of it other than more bills.
 
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blank_sl

shitlord
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This is why this thread is here and not locked in the shaw, so fuck whatever mod thought that was the right move. Don't tread on us.
 
Void

Void

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Iannis_sl said:
He had supporters re-pledge to his PayPal account after, like the hour after, the kickscatter failed.

And the damfools did it while paying an extra fee for the privilege.

The kickstarter total was higher. Didn't the KS Carl out somewhere in the 300k range?
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Wow, fucking really? Well, I guess they have no one to blame but themselves then. Christ.
 
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Requiem_sl

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Astral Projection_sl said:
This actual 100% verified legitimate tweet pretty much sums it up.

tBhYcogGzQyBHcYUjlhEQiOw.jpg20140623-2-1e6uod2
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Haha. Hey Alex, since apparently you're reading this, at least my version of FoH stayed relevant until 2012. You managed to turn it into a 5th-rate guild within months of me moving on to EVE and ceasing my recruitment activities. You really showed us all how amazing you are when you invited the entire IRC channel to the WoW guild and let Ravvenn alienate everybody but her 5 friends in your absence.

Edit - And yes, I realize the dripping irony. The fact still remains that 2012 > 2004.
 
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Raidan_EQ_sl

shitlord
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Beck,

It's not whitewashing, it's just not trying to create more drama than exists because plenty obviously does. As to your C... if they were concerned about whistleblowing, the initial developers would have never made themselves look like high schoolers on your recorded "radio" show. It would have been much more professional to go through the courts and a formal process. Also, if they were concerned with being hired in the future, producing jack at your last project and claiming you weren't paid enough in a start-up company isn't exactly the best ticket to a new job either. All someone would need to do is log onto KTAM website, (I know.. you love that.. more site hits for your ego), to listen to the recorded stream - plenty of black list material there.

#1,2,3 all amounted to the same idea in different situations. That if a corporation, especially the owner, can be proven to have engaged in fradulent activities and "owes" money, then they can be sued personally. Yes, it might have only been the bills if they claimed just the contracts, but there's plenty of other bogus aspects they could have added on as well such as "pain and suffering" etc. to seize more of Brad's assets.

And yes, any case taken to criminal or civil court has a chance at failure, which is why many people plead guilty in criminal cases and accept a plea bargain rather than lose at trial and many people ultimately don't sue in civil courts because they think they will lose and/or lose more money in attorney fees even if they win. However, if the case is as clear cut as your radio show always tried to claim it to be, the civil suit should be an open and shut case. And, not knowing how accurate your word is, but assuming it is true and that the original development team did consult their lawyers and their lawyers also said it was clear-cut, then I'm saying the original contracts were bogus, or they were all were being paid on 10-99s. Meaning, Brad might have told them he was going to pay them on 10-99s, they completed X work, never signed a 10-99 saying I will make X amount of money. If there were contracts signed, there's no point not to go forward.

I never agreed with how the money was spent and I still don't - and that includes the entire 150k, not just the 45k cash advance that Brad pocketed. That doesn't mean that I'm going to whine and say I'm entitled to get it back either. I signed up with full knowledge of the shit storm that I possibly could be getting into i.e. Vanguard, Kickstarter Failure, Brad in general, and, apparently, it seems that you didn't do good enough research prior to donating.
 
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Raidan_EQ_sl

shitlord
52
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Beck,

It's not whitewashing, it's just not trying to create more drama than exists because plenty obviously does. As to your C... if they were concerned about whistleblowing, the initial developers would have never made themselves look like high schoolers on your recorded "radio" show. It would have been much more professional to go through the courts and a formal process. Also, if they were concerned with being hired in the future, producing jack at your last project and claiming you weren't paid enough in a start-up company isn't exactly the best ticket to a new job either. All someone would need to do is log onto KTAM website, (I know.. you love that.. more site hits for your ego), to listen to the recorded stream - plenty of black list material there.

#1,2,3 all amounted to the same idea in different situations. That if a corporation, especially the owner, can be proven to have engaged in fradulent activities and "owes" money, then they can be sued personally. Yes, it might have only been the bills if they claimed just the contracts, but there's plenty of other bogus aspects they could have added on as well such as "pain and suffering" etc. to seize more of Brad's assets.

And yes, any case taken to criminal or civil court has a chance at failure, which is why many people plead guilty in criminal cases and accept a plea bargain rather than lose at trial and many people ultimately don't sue in civil courts because they think they will lose and/or lose more money in attorney fees even if they win. However, if the case is as clear cut as your radio show always tried to claim it to be, the civil suit should be an open and shut case. And, not knowing how accurate your word is, but assuming it is true and that the original development team did consult their lawyers and their lawyers also said it was clear-cut, then I'm saying the original contracts were bogus, or they were all were being paid on 10-99s. Meaning, Brad might have told them he was going to pay them on 10-99s, they completed X work, never signed a 10-99 saying I will make X amount of money. If there were contracts signed, there's no point not to go forward.

I never agreed with how the money was spent and I still don't - and that includes the entire 150k, not just the 45k cash advance that Brad pocketed. That doesn't mean that I'm going to whine and say I'm entitled to get it back either. I signed up with full knowledge of the shit storm that I possibly could be getting into i.e. Vanguard, Kickstarter Failure, Brad in general, and, apparently, it seems that you didn't do good enough research prior to donating.
 
Furious

Furious

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Requiem_sl said:
Haha. Hey Alex, since apparently you're reading this, at least my version of FoH stayed relevant until 2012. You managed to turn it into a 5th-rate guild within months of me moving on to EVE and ceasing my recruitment activities. You really showed us all how amazing you are when you invited the entire IRC channel to the WoW guild and let Ravvenn alienate everybody but her 5 friends in your absence.

Edit - And yes, I realize the dripping irony. The fact still remains that 2012 > 2004.
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ouch

Pantheon thread is best rerolled thread?
 
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