Parent Thread

Which denomination do you adhere to, dork?

lurkingdirk_sl said:

But, to be clear, if a parent has faith, faith of any kind, bringing them to church/mosque/whatever with them is a negative thing because it's indoctrination, not simply parenting? I have pretty serious issues with that perspective. Sounds a lot like people who just get pissed when religion is introduced in any way.

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Well this is pretty much my perspective. The very existence of religion offends me. But interfering with the right of parents to raise their children as they see fit (within reason) is a line that shouldn't be crossed no matter how I feel about religion. As long as it can't be proven that their upbringing is directly harmful to them, it shouldn't be interfered with. Given a choice, I'd rather try to destroy religion itself instead of interfering with parents raising their children.

a_skeleton_03_sl said:

Sorry kids you can't come to church with mom and dad because this guy named Izo on the internet thinks I am indoctrinating you and his society is superior and they only indoctrinate their children in secularity and that kind of indoctrination is okay but allowing you to have a glimpse into what your parents believe is bad .....

How come you secularists aren't teaching them the facts of religion and letting them go that way if that's how they so please? Get out with that bullshit.

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It's impossible to teach history and not include religion. Any European knows that. So naturally we do. We, secular Nordics, just don't attribute the same value and weight to the superstitual parts. Didn't you live here, Europe, briefly? Or did you only see the inside of the military base?

Izo_sl said:

Which denomination do you adhere to, dork?

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Why do you ask?

Gavinmad_sl said:

Well this is pretty much my perspective. The very existence of religion offends me. But interfering with the right of parents to raise their children as they see fit (within reason) is a line that shouldn't be crossed no matter how I feel about religion. As long as it can't be proven that their upbringing is directly harmful to them, it shouldn't be interfered with. Given a choice, I'd rather try to destroy religion itself instead of interfering with parents raising their children.

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Not to attribute the the circumcision debate to dork - although that's precisely one of the religious and culturally bancrupt ideas that has got to go - you should try googling my good friend Professor Morten Frisch.

Cad_sl said:

I mean, if you don't stop and realize that theism is at best wishful thinking and at worst objectively false, and you're teaching this to your child as if it is true, and wonder if thats a good idea or not, I don't know what to tell you.

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You should probably broaden your outlook, and stop trying to insist that yours is the only perspective that is correct.

lurkingdirk_sl said:

Why do you ask?

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Why do you hesitate to answer? I'm an atheist - I try to understand your, to me, vastly different pov.

I suggest this conversation move either to a new grownup thread or to the religion thread in general.

Izo_sl said:

Not to attribute the the circumcision debate to dork - although that's precisely one of the religious and culturally bancrupt ideas that has got to go - you should try googling my good friend Professor Morten Frisch.

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Wow. Good argument. "I'm not going to say dork is responsible for this totally inane, useless tradition that is often stupidly argued by people on the extreme right of his religion, but I'm going to mention it in an attempt to discredit him."

Well done. You've ended our discussion with the exception of the below answer.

Izo_sl said:

Why do you hesitate to answer? I'm an atheist - I try to understand your, to me, vastly different pov.

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I hesitate to answer because you're on the attack. I am a Protestant, largely of the Reformed tradition. However, there is no one denomination or sect that has everything correct, and I tend to incorporate Orthodox and Catholic practices into my personal faith, too.

lurkingdirk_sl said:

Wow. Good argument. "I'm not going to say dork is responsible for this totally inane, useless tradition that is often stupidly argued by people on the extreme right of his religion, but I'm going to mention it in an attempt to discredit him."

Well done. You've ended our discussion with the exception of the below answer.



I hesitate to answer because you're on the attack. I am a Protestant, largely of the Reformed tradition. However, there is no one denomination or sect that has everything correct, and I tend to incorporate Orthodox and Catholic practices into my personal faith, too.

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How do you go about determining what is correct? What method do you use to ascertain what religious or sectarian practices you should or should't teach your kids? I'm trying to understand what, to me, seems like a massive cognitive dissonance.

Circumcision was meant for Gavinmad - since he is selvproclaimed like minded (to me). Now that you yourself opened it up, I'm curious - what do you teach your kids about circumsion then? I assume this could be one of their questions given the exposure to your jewish and Muslim friends.

Should we make a new thread? I'll sleep on it, 1.30 am here.

The Religion (or lack thereof) Thread - Page 636

Perfect place to take the religious debate.

Honestly, that thread is about the most hostile thing I have ever read to people of faith. If there was an atheist KKK, that thread would be its happy place. Better to hijack this one.

Realizing I'm in the extreme minority here, for me it's impossible to have a parenting discussion without also having a faith discussion. To me, being a good parent is about showing my kids that the universe does not revolve around them and the things they own. I believe that is important because I believe in something greater than us.

It is an important facet of parenting, for atheists or theists it is going to come up and you have to decide how to deal with it.

I am a pretty staunch atheist, whatever that means, but I am only really crass about it online. In real life, I just avoid the topic. Unless I have a religious friend who specifically wants to have a conversation with me about it, then I will. As far as my kids, man, I have no idea what to do, I have enough problems without stressing over that. God or no god, they'll find out soon enough. I've only had one question about it from my oldest, nothing else yet. If she decides she wants to be religious I'll support her, to an extent. I'm not going to church with her or anything but I'll let her go and figure out whatever she needs to.

At least, I feel that way, but part of me feels like I should protect her from that and tell her it's all fake. It would destroy me to see her grow up to be Kim Davis or Westboro Baptist something like that, spouting that hateful shit. Your typical Christian who is just kind of laid back and "hey Jesus was cool let's all be cool", sure. These people I read on facebook convinced that Obama is the anti-christ? Yeah dude, I don't know. It is a hard line to walk. Give her freedom and possibly deal with an abhorrent choice? Or teach her according to what I believe and cross that other line into indoctrination of a different kind? And it isn't just her, this is a generational choice. Her kids, their kids, etc could all be affected.

Taking your kid to church throughout thier whole life until they leave is absolutely indoctrination, that's not even really a question. The question is whether that is really a bad thing or not. There are so many worse things for a kid to do.

I would think most people claiming to be atheists are actually agnostic, but I guess that's besides the point. I'm personally cool with a religious discussion as it pertains to how you raise your kids, but if it turns into a circle jerk religion discussion it's probably better suited for the other thread.

Ritley_sl said:

Taking your kid to church throughout thier whole life until they leave is absolutely indoctrination, that's not even really a question. The question is whether that is really a bad thing or not. There are so many worse things for a kid to do.

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I think I've said before, I really envy that about religious people. Having that community, I don't have anything like that. My kids don't have anything like that, more importantly. It is something there really is no substitute when you aren't religious, unless you join one of those silly Church of Bacon or whatever things. Even then, it isn't the same.

So if my kids come to church with me until they leave home, it's indoctrination? Even if we're open to other things? Even though it's how I live my life and it's the example I'm trying to set? Okay. I'm fine with indoctrination, I guess.

They have atheist friends from hockey or soccer or school or whatever that come over plenty. Those kids are the ones who start discussions of theology with me, and we wade right into it. My kids are exposed to a wide variety of beliefs. I want them to be entirely involved in my life, and that involves them being part of the community to which I belong. I'm entirely comfortable with that.

I'd also encourage you, chaos, to not simply avoid the issue. Tell your kids you don't believe in God. Explain why. Tell them people think differently than you do, and encourage them to read about it, think about it, or decide to ignore it. But, my initial comment that sparked all this discussion stands: don't limit your kids' exposure to religion because of your own beliefs.

Yeah I planned n doing that when they're older. At 6 I don't think she is really ready for that kind of nuanced discussion. Also, I don't want it to reflect badly on her. There is still a stigma against atheism,especially in the South, and if she went to school and was telling everyone that we don't believe in god or whatever I can there are people who would hold that against her.