Pathfinder - Pen and Paper RPG Books

Grimsark

Grimsark

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I appreciate your opinion Zhaun. And you may be proven right in the end.
smile.png


But to try to steer this back on topic, I was wondering if anyone had any specific Pathfinder books they would recommend and why?

Has anyone made good use of the NPC Codex or Ultimate Campaign? (For example) Can you explain how you used it/them?

I think I am definitely picking up Beastiary 4. No hesitation. The last 3 where great IMO.
 
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Goonsquad Officer
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Our Only War game is wrapping up and it looks like we're going to pay pathfinder next. I flipped through the main book, then used the Wikipedia-like-rule thing (Getting Started) to make my character. I'm impressed with the rules as compared to 3.0, 3.5 or 4.0

I'm looking forward to it. I'll report back any rule shenanigans
 
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Zhaun_sl

shitlord
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I've looked over the Mythic Stuff. The rules seem pretty solid and the idea is a good one. I like them overall. Definitely think it is a good addition.

At the same time though, this seems like another... band-aid type mechanic on the system to try and improve what needs to be scrapped and remade. There are several things that this now lets you do that you should probably be able to do anyways somehow.

This is kind of my ultimate frustration with Pathfinder. I'll find something I like somewhere but my excitement tends to be diminished when I think about it a bit and realize "This doesn't work because of some obscure rule" or "Why do I have to jump through so many hoops to do such a seemingly simple thing" or "Yes, I could do this, but the character is ultimately gimpy" or "This is cool, but in 10 levels it falls apart and doesn't work anymore" or simply "I want X but not Y but can't separate the two."

Ah well.

edit: I think it bugs me so much because I *almost* like it, I *want* to like it, my heart is there, but my head does the maths and I just get sad realizing how ugly things are.
 
Grimsark

Grimsark

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Zhaun_sl said:
I've looked over the Mythic Stuff. The rules seem pretty solid and the idea is a good one. I like them overall. Definitely think it is a good addition.

At the same time though, this seems like another... band-aid type mechanic on the system to try and improve what needs to be scrapped and remade. There are several things that this now lets you do that you should probably be able to do anyways somehow.

This is kind of my ultimate frustration with Pathfinder. I'll find something I like somewhere but my excitement tends to be diminished when I think about it a bit and realize "This doesn't work because of some obscure rule" or "Why do I have to jump through so many hoops to do such a seemingly simple thing" or "Yes, I could do this, but the character is ultimately gimpy" or "This is cool, but in 10 levels it falls apart and doesn't work anymore" or simply "I want X but not Y but can't separate the two."

Ah well.

edit: I think it bugs me so much because I *almost* like it, I *want* to like it, my heart is there, but my head does the maths and I just get sad realizing how ugly things are.
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There is no such thing as a perfect rule-set.
wink.png

I have about two dozen different RPG's in my collection and they each have good and bad parts.

If you where a complete noob that had never touched pen and paper RPG's my advice to you regarding what I hear/read you saying would be that the rule-sets are not absolute. There are no dictatorship here and you are free to change the rules (if you are the story teller), so long as you pass it by the players before the game starts and they don't mind it. Because in the end, the game is about everyone at the table, not just your story. (A small lesson I had to learn the hard way, as I am 99% of the time the DM/ST)
Note: The reverse is also true. Talk to the DM/ST and attempt to get odd limits changed.

I suppose, in the end, the way I look at these things is much like the way I look at speed limits, or painted lines on the streets I drive on... I can speed or cross the lines when I think its safe, but do it to much and I'll likely get called out on it (lose players). RPG's are like tiny communities. Everyone's actions effect every else involved.
 
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Running Dog_sl

shitlord
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Grimsark_sl said:
I appreciate your opinion Zhaun. And you may be proven right in the end.
smile.png


But to try to steer this back on topic, I was wondering if anyone had any specific Pathfinder books they would recommend and why?

Has anyone made good use of the NPC Codex or Ultimate Campaign? (For example) Can you explain how you used it/them?

I think I am definitely picking up Beastiary 4. No hesitation. The last 3 where great IMO.
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I have the Ultimate Campaign, I liked the idea of filling out what characters were doing inbetween adventures since our gaming sessions had become irregular. I also had in the back of my mind an idea to get the players more involved with the kingdom they were adventuring in. This ended up turning into the defense and then expansion of a colony on the shores of a neighbouring "unexplored" continent. I made a solo campaign for myself placing new settlements and expanding them using the rules to see how things worked out, and to flesh out the new area.

Apart from the downtime and kingdom building chapters:
The character background stuff I found handy for NPCs (like the people in charge of the new settlements). I'm not too keen on traits or the story feats however. There's a real "pick and mix" in the campaign systems. I used Contacts, Honor, Exploration, and Reputation. Bargaining and Investment, on the other hand, didn't seem the kind of things adventurers would be up to.
 
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Goonsquad Officer
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So I'm making a lvl 1 fighter, rest in rogue kind of skirmisher character.

taking scout rogue package. fighting heavy shield and armored gauntlet

anyway does anyone read deep in the rules enough to answer a question which has been mindbottling me?

how does this feat work for 2 weapon fighting. do I need other 2 weapon feats (making this feat's purpose kind of weird)? can I skip them (grats, you get a shitty offhand weapon)?

Shield Master (Combat)

Your mastery of the shield allows you to fight with it without hindrance.

Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11.

Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus.
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Ko Dokomo_sl

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The prerequisites are just that. You need them. Yes, you can use a shield as an offhand weapon and this feat makes it really good since you usually have a penalty when doing so.
 
Denamian

Denamian

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Yep, most of the time you end up with a -2 penalty to each hand when dual wielding if you have two weapon fighting and are wielding a light weapon in your offhand. Just be aware that due to having shield slam as a prerequisite means you need all of the following: Shield Focus, Greater Shield Focus, Shield Specialization, Greater Shield Specialization, Shield Slam, Fighter 12 and BAB +11. If your plan is to only get 1 level of fighter you can't do it unless your GM is allowing you to ignore the fighter 12 requirement
 
Denamian

Denamian

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Bah, I was reading the combat feats list on the SRD and accidentally included Greater Shield Specialization in the prerequisites since it was indented under Shield Slam. Much easier to do without those.
 
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Goonsquad Officer
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yea that makes sense. as it sits now i'm kind of planning to skip dual wield. I always thought it ate too many feats. I may just stick to other forms of utility rather than going down that dark and feat-eating path.
 
Grimsark

Grimsark

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Running Dog_sl said:
I have the Ultimate Campaign, I liked the idea of filling out what characters were doing inbetween adventures since our gaming sessions had become irregular. I also had in the back of my mind an idea to get the players more involved with the kingdom they were adventuring in. This ended up turning into the defense and then expansion of a colony on the shores of a neighbouring "unexplored" continent. I made a solo campaign for myself placing new settlements and expanding them using the rules to see how things worked out, and to flesh out the new area.

Apart from the downtime and kingdom building chapters:
The character background stuff I found handy for NPCs (like the people in charge of the new settlements). I'm not too keen on traits or the story feats however. There's a real "pick and mix" in the campaign systems. I used Contacts, Honor, Exploration, and Reputation. Bargaining and Investment, on the other hand, didn't seem the kind of things adventurers would be up to.
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Sorry for the late reply. I must have never sent the one I thought I posted...

Thanks for the info. I am the kind of DM to put background blurbs on every NPC the players might meet in game, as a mental note to deal with any unforeseen randomness (which is nearly always needed). So I have been reluctant to dish out the cash for supplements that would only reproduce what I already do. Thus I have avoided the NPC Codex. But the Ultimate Campaign looks like I might get some good hooks out of. So I am really on the fence.

In the past, I have picked up stuff from the old schoolers like Gygax, and Greenwood, but over all didn't find them to necessary. Maybe I am just an exceptionally creative type, but I get more ideas from random novels and stuff like Goodman's The Dungeon Alphabet, etc., than I do from world building How To's...
 
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Gryce

Molten Core Raider
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Himeo_sl said:
The spell and combat systems are boring and too simulationist for me, which is why I dislike 3.5 and earlier editions. Pathfinder makes significant improvements.

Biggest problem with 4E (other than shitty / incomplete campaign settings), is the combat got bogged down by tracking combat marks / status effects, and the math stopped working late Paragon or early Epic.

That last flaw could be fixed if they ever published a DMG 3, but nope. Fuck Epic tier. They promised us three different tiers of gaming and delivered one and a half. It's like playing EQ without raiding.
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They actually worked towards fixing the math problems (from what I can remember) that started cropping up with I believe it was MM3. They restructured creatures ac and damage to balance the math out, of course if you are minus that book it all kinda still comes off the same.
 
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Zhaun_sl

shitlord
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Has anyone done a Wildshape-focused Druid in Pathfinder?

I have no problem with Druids, just talking about Wildshape, it just seems a bit awful at lower levels until you're able to drop like 50k on a specific set of items for focusing on it. I'm just curious if I'm reading it wrong.

It just looks like you'll be rocking around a 15ish AC in critter form at levels 4-8ish? That just seems like you'll be destroyed if anything decides to turn its attention to you, which it may when you're a large critter nibbling on it.
 
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Running Dog_sl

shitlord
1,199
3
Grimsark_sl said:
Sorry for the late reply. I must have never sent the one I thought I posted...

Thanks for the info. I am the kind of DM to put background blurbs on every NPC the players might meet in game, as a mental note to deal with any unforeseen randomness (which is nearly always needed). So I have been reluctant to dish out the cash for supplements that would only reproduce what I already do. Thus I have avoided the NPC Codex. But the Ultimate Campaign looks like I might get some good hooks out of. So I am really on the fence.

In the past, I have picked up stuff from the old schoolers like Gygax, and Greenwood, but over all didn't find them to necessary. Maybe I am just an exceptionally creative type, but I get more ideas from random novels and stuff like Goodman's The Dungeon Alphabet, etc., than I do from world building How To's...
Click to expand...
The UC background generator is designed for PCs rather than NPCs, so you have to use it sparingly for NPCs. In fact almost all the stuff in the UC is for PCs, so the kingdom creation guides are for PCs creating and running towns, cities and kingdoms, rather than for a DM to create such in a campaign - although they can be applied with a little thought and care.

Old school indeed: one of the first "supplements" I bought was the Judges Guild "First Fantasy Campaign" which detailed the Blackmoor campaign setting, which predated Greyhawk and Dungeons and Dragons. It was more interesting than useful, seeing how a wargame evolved into a dungeon bash.

Blackmoor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
K

Ko Dokomo_sl

shitlord
478
1
Zhaun_sl said:
Has anyone done a Wildshape-focused Druid in Pathfinder?

I have no problem with Druids, just talking about Wildshape, it just seems a bit awful at lower levels until you're able to drop like 50k on a specific set of items for focusing on it. I'm just curious if I'm reading it wrong.

It just looks like you'll be rocking around a 15ish AC in critter form at levels 4-8ish? That just seems like you'll be destroyed if anything decides to turn its attention to you, which it may when you're a large critter nibbling on it.
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If you want to run Wild Shape get VERY familiar with the rules first. It is not like 3.5 where you turned into an exact physical replica of the monster. Now it just functions like the Beast Shape spell so you get the natural attacks that the monster has, but you are using your physical stats + the boost from Beast Shape. You also get SOME of the abilities of a creature per the Beast Shape spell. You do not get the feats that come with a monster, which makes turning into an octopus sucky because you don't have multiattack.

But it's not as bad as you might think. By level 6 you are using Beast Shape 2 equivalent and since you can turn into any animal you are familiar with you can go above your CR. Take a CR 8 Dire Tiger that an 18 Str Druid has shifted into. Your stats are now 22 Str, X-2 Dex, X Con, Armor X+4-1(Dex) which can include your armor and shield! Your attacks are 2 Claws +10 for 2d4+6 and a Bite 2d6+6 all with grab as well as the pounce ability, but not rake. At 6th level that's really fucking scary if you can make the Knowledge Nature check. The downside is that by concentrating on physical stats your casting is gonna suck, but that's what wands are for!
 
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Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
Yeah, its the Beast Shape stuff that really kinda changes it from "omg crazy" to "I'm not sure how handy this is".

But your armor and shield don't count unless you can stick a +3 enchant on each of them. This is what I was referring to in saying you need 50k worth of custom gear to get it to work. Otherwise that Dire Tiger has going to have about a 16 AC, which for level 6 as a large creature you're probably going to be mauled.

Just doesn't seem quite practical to me. I know the *potential* is there, but just in an actual game I'm not so sure.
 
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Tin Man_sl

shitlord
24
0
I'm in a campaign with a Druid (now 12th level) who's focused on combat/wild shape, and he's quite powerful. Typical combat now is, druid turns into air elemental which has fly of 100'. He then turns into a whirlwind, and sucks up every npc he can (DC 21 reflex to avoid), flies em over a chasm or way up in the air, and drops em to their death. It's almost annoying when he takes out half to 3/4's of the encounter, and the rest of us are just reaching the combat area heh. With that flight and earth elemental's earth glide ability they make fantastic scouts too.

Druids probably have the most options of any class out there, they may not specialize in one thing as well as another char, but they can come damn close. That said, they are still susceptible to focus fire, which my friend got destroyed by a week or two back.
 
Void

Void

Experiencer
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This shit really brings back the nostalgia of playing D&D (1st edition) when I was a kid. I've stopped by a few local gaming stores and checked out what sort of games were going on, but they were either something I really had no interest in playing, or the people just creeped me out. I know that's pretty judgmental, but I'm not going to enjoy joining a group that I can't even stand to be in the same room with due to the stench. All of my real life friends that would play are scattered around the country, and far busier than I am to even attempt to find a common time. Which gives me an idea.

What someone really needs to do is build some basic online tools that will integrate a Skype-like chat window for everyone around a virtual table, and lets the DM construct and maneuver the main game board to show the players what they are seeing. Throw in a few basic templates of things like dungeon walls, grassy areas, fences, treasure chests, etc. You aren't likely to get WotC or anyone else to give you digital representations of their creatures, but if you make it with an open toolset people will do that shit for you. Let people make their own "figures", let the DMs lay out maps ahead of time, etc. Even integrate (or have the community develop) some basic stat-keeping, dice-rolling, etc. for different systems. If the rules are open source, if someone wants to play a particular system bad enough they'll make it and toss it up for others to use.

Something like this would allow me to play with a bunch of you guys, for example. Or if one guy can't make your gaming night because he's home with the baby, he might be able to log in via Skype and at least participate.

Someone make it happen. I only ask for 10% of the royalties.
 
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