Politics, civility, and you!

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a_skeleton_03

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So I have been thinking about this for a long time. Maybe years but a lot lately. I figured it might be interesting to discuss so here is an attempt.

Quite often we find ourselves squared off in a political debate with two sides. You might have the random "both sides are bad" or a libertarian trying to be pretentious even if they identify 99% with one party or the other. In that battlefield we have labels that are just easy go to definers and also pejoratives. We might instantly lash out at someone on the other side of the line or it might take a while to snap. Very few people are immune from it.

On a forum like this that can get ramped up to eleven due to lack of accountability, not seeing that person ever, and anonymity. We reach down for some of the worst labels we can use to dig firmly under the skin of our opponent. Sometimes we all call a certain group something without them even being here to experience it. We are just shouting at the wind for all that is worth. For instance I don't think we have any BLM members on this forum but we sure give them hell.

What does it benefit us? Is it merely cathartic? Does it give our responses that extra zing and edge? Is it bait to see if the other side stoops to our level?

I feel that I do not enjoy some of the mob mentality in our post Trump forum. No, no that doesn't mean I don't like Trump. I don't think I love the constant witch hunt and beratement of all that are not in lockstep. I wonder if it is beneficial to anyone's cause.

Are there studies about whether people change their opinion in the face of open hostility? Is this even a topic worth discussing?

I am not suggesting anyone change their posting style I am just curious what kind of response there might be on this topic.
 
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hodj

hodj

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Tons of research on how people react to facts contrary to their position, how they entrench along lines of already assumed positions, all sorts of stuff in that arena.

I think its mostly just fun to shitpost brah. That's what the internet is for.

Porn and shitposting.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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jihodj said:
Tons of research on how people react to facts contrary to their position, how they entrench along lines of already assumed positions, all sorts of stuff in that arena.

I think its mostly just fun to shitpost brah. That's what the internet is for.

Porn and shitposting.
Click to expand...
Yeah but it isn't just on the internet. Not even slightly. It's just not always at eleven.
 
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hodj

hodj

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Right. The effect is just greater on the internet, and even greater thanks to social media.

Social media especially is allowing people to segregate themselves according to ideas they already like and agree with from ideas they dislike or do not agree with.

Facebook adding the unfollow button was the biggest mistake ever made.
 
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sadris

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Yes. Read Influence by Robert Cialdini.

People are more moved to act and change their position based on social pressure than even economic pressure. ie these bulbs will save you money personally is LESS persuasive than your neighbors all switched to these bulbs.
 
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hodj

hodj

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sadris said:
Yes. Read Influence by Robert Cialdini.

People are more moved to act and change their position based on social pressure than even economic pressure. ie these bulbs will save you money personally is LESS persuasive than your neighbors all switched to these bulbs.
Click to expand...

Accurate.
 
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Mario Speedwagon

Mario Speedwagon

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The way I've always viewed it is that Internet arguments are not for the benefit of the people actively engaged in the argument. The people participating likely have strong views on the subject, which is why they bother to participate, and are unlikely to be changed by it. The people just reading it though are either not informed enough to participate or don't have strong views either way and can thus be convinced of a new view point.

I've learned a lot over the years just by reading arguments on here that I never participated in.
 
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Mist

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Srathor

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People are civil to those they respect, or fear, this board of Jaded assholes has a few I respect and none that I fear since the internet protects me. (grins)

My take on much of the hostility and rage is just simply people being able to say what they feel here. They feel safe to be really fucking rude and not be truly judged on it. Another facet of the rage is how much Obama and the left truly fucked over people who believed in them, hope and change was a great idea that was dashed seconds after office was won.

The repubs also fucked over everyone as well. The tea party handed them some amazing midterms and they smartly ignored any promises and got to the fucking of the people like they were born to it.

Now Trump wins on more hope and change with the MAGA tag. And the morass is promptly sucking down any hope and the change is going to be more of the same. Congress has had almost a month, is the next budget being worked on or just another CR.

Honestly both sides are bad. Trump is the outsider who is going to either get sucked in and tarnished or whacked by some three named dude with crazy eyes and a history of pills. But oh well, we'll see what happens.
 
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Arbitrary

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sadris said:
Yes. Read Influence by Robert Cialdini.

People are more moved to act and change their position based on social pressure than even economic pressure. ie these bulbs will save you money personally is LESS persuasive than your neighbors all switched to these bulbs.
Click to expand...

After reading Douglas Adam's book "How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big (it was ok)" I decided to take him up on his advice to learn more about persuasion and I'm between books right now so let me tell you what Imma gonna do Imma going to download the audiobook for this RIGHT NOW and start it tonight or tomorrow evening.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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Mario Speedwagon said:
I've learned a lot over the years just by reading arguments on here that I never participated in.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I can agree with that.

I also feel that if they are total dickholes regardless if they are right I dismiss their opinion and now their entire belief system is a poison well.
 
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Feanor

Feanor

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a_skeleton_03 said:
So I have been thinking about this for a long time. Maybe years but a lot lately. I figured it might be interesting to discuss so here is an attempt.

Quite often we find ourselves squared off in a political debate with two sides. You might have the random "both sides are bad" or a libertarian trying to be pretentious even if they identify 99% with one party or the other. In that battlefield we have labels that are just easy go to definers and also pejoratives. We might instantly lash out at someone on the other side of the line or it might take a while to snap. Very few people are immune from it.

On a forum like this that can get ramped up to eleven due to lack of accountability, not seeing that person ever, and anonymity. We reach down for some of the worst labels we can use to dig firmly under the skin of our opponent. Sometimes we all call a certain group something without them even being here to experience it. We are just shouting at the wind for all that is worth. For instance I don't think we have any BLM members on this forum but we sure give them hell.

What does it benefit us? Is it merely cathartic? Does it give our responses that extra zing and edge? Is it bait to see if the other side stoops to our level?

I feel that I do not enjoy some of the mob mentality in our post Trump forum. No, no that doesn't mean I don't like Trump. I don't think I love the constant witch hunt and beratement of all that are not in lockstep. I wonder if it is beneficial to anyone's cause.

Are there studies about whether people change their opinion in the face of open hostility? Is this even a topic worth discussing?

I am not suggesting anyone change their posting style I am just curious what kind of response there might be on this topic.
Click to expand...
Easy. Give back P Picasso3 his political thread.
 
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hodj

hodj

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Mario Speedwagon said:
The people just reading it though are either not informed enough to participate or don't have strong views either way and can thus be convinced of a new view point.
Click to expand...

Yeah I only made this point like at least once if not more than once in the Atheism thread today as well.

The discussion isn't for those involved, its for those who might be looking on to inform them so they can reach a better conclusion themselves with more information.
 
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Feanor

Feanor

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I see this as a_skeleton_03 doing what Picasso tried to do with his thread, which I haven't really read yet. And now I never can I guess? It was merged?

Points for civility but I doubt this will go anywhere.

Since I don't browse 4chan I've learned about dindus, sjws and all sorts of chicanery on this unruly board. Not sure if I'm thankful or

 
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Quaid

Quaid

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a_skeleton_03 said:
So I have been thinking about this for a long time. Maybe years but a lot lately. I figured it might be interesting to discuss so here is an attempt.

Quite often we find ourselves squared off in a political debate with two sides. You might have the random "both sides are bad" or a libertarian trying to be pretentious even if they identify 99% with one party or the other. In that battlefield we have labels that are just easy go to definers and also pejoratives. We might instantly lash out at someone on the other side of the line or it might take a while to snap. Very few people are immune from it.

On a forum like this that can get ramped up to eleven due to lack of accountability, not seeing that person ever, and anonymity. We reach down for some of the worst labels we can use to dig firmly under the skin of our opponent. Sometimes we all call a certain group something without them even being here to experience it. We are just shouting at the wind for all that is worth. For instance I don't think we have any BLM members on this forum but we sure give them hell.

What does it benefit us? Is it merely cathartic? Does it give our responses that extra zing and edge? Is it bait to see if the other side stoops to our level?

I feel that I do not enjoy some of the mob mentality in our post Trump forum. No, no that doesn't mean I don't like Trump. I don't think I love the constant witch hunt and beratement of all that are not in lockstep. I wonder if it is beneficial to anyone's cause.

Are there studies about whether people change their opinion in the face of open hostility? Is this even a topic worth discussing?

I am not suggesting anyone change their posting style I am just curious what kind of response there might be on this topic.
Click to expand...

Who bitch dis is?
 
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iannis

iannis

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Dogpiling does happen. It's something that posters like IRB And kewldad help with. They're a locus for dogpiles.

We tend to argue the person instead of the position. It happens irl all the time. It's just more naked in this form, not unique.

Seeing that we do it helps us to do less of it. I force myself to pay attention to what xeq and scream say. They're not the villains. No one is.
 
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