Debate Roundabouts: Efficiency in Action or Vortex of Death

Borzak · Oct 20, 2017

They have a randabout in a very small town where 2 state highways cross on the edge of town near my home in East Texas. Been there all my life so at least 40+ years. 2 lane highway that widens as it goes thru the roundabout. Nobody uses it like you are supposed to but it's been there 40+ years and most of the people have been going thru it wrong all their life. Worked out great, and anyone who approached it from out of town just followed everyone else. It never had lines and such. Then the state came in and painted lane markers. It stayed that way for a few months and then the state came in with black paint to cover them up because

Lambourne said:
Try driving in the UK sometime, they have a fetish for roundabouts even by European standards. You see a bog standard side street intersection except there's a dot in the middle and now it's a roundabout. Have fun.

View attachment 155039

Picasso3 · Oct 20, 2017

Intersection Safety - Safety | Federal Highway Administration

khorum · Oct 20, 2017

This thread is particularly tasteless even by the incredibly low standards of this forum.

There probably are members of this forum who have been victims of shitty traffic engineering, especially given the number of asians and female drivers who post here, and the fact that @Mist still posts here as well.

Hoss · Oct 20, 2017

Zapatta said:
Also why do Brits let destructive vegetation climb their buildings and fuck their shit up? Do you fuckers never paint?

Th house looks like it's got a mustache and a monocle. That's called class you fucking savage.

Borzak said:
They have a randabout in a very small town where 2 state highways cross on the edge of town near my home in East Texas. Been there all my life so at least 40+ years. 2 lane highway that widens as it goes thru the roundabout. Nobody uses it like you are supposed to but it's been there 40+ years and most of the people have been going thru it wrong all their life. Worked out great, and anyone who approached it from out of town just followed everyone else. It never had lines and such. Then the state came in and painted lane markers. It stayed that way for a few months and then the state came in with black paint to cover them up because

Where is that? i remember an intersection like that around the Lufkin / San Augustine area. I haven't been in that area in 10+ years so I guess I would't have seen the failed attempt to turn it into a roundabout. But I can see where they might have tried it with the weird one I remember.

Lendarios · Oct 20, 2017

Aldarion said:
Boy youre doing a really great job of disproving the argument that 4 way stops take less time. An argument no one ever made. But you are defeating it handily. Good show sir.

Roundabouts are an inferior design because no one stops. Please tell me more about how people get through a roundabout more quickly than a stop sign. Its fascinating to read your deep insights.

4 cars in opposing vectors approach a traffic light -controlled intersection. all four car wish to turn right, out of those 2, only 2 can go right away, the other two have to come to full stops before making a right with on a red signal (even if no one is coming).

4 cars in opposing vectors approach a round about, they all wish to turn right. Not a single car stops and they all take the right at the same time, without stopping.

/yawn.

Hoss · Oct 20, 2017

Did it really take lenin 4 days to theorycraft a scenario in which TCODs were better than regular intersections?

Bandwagon · Oct 20, 2017

Lendarios said:
4 cars in opposing vectors approach a traffic light -controlled intersection. all four car wish to turn right, out of those 2, only 2 can go right away, the other two have to come to full stops before making a right with on a red signal (even if no one is coming).

4 cars in opposing vectors approach a round about, they all wish to turn right. Not a single car stops and they all take the right at the same time, without stopping.

/yawn.

Roundabouts exploded in popularity because of your thought process. It makes sense on paper.

We're not dumb, you're just failing to include the (very common) issues with driver confusion and hesitation in yoir statements.

Lendarios · Oct 20, 2017

Bandwagon said:
Roundabouts exploded in popularity because of your thought process. It makes sense on paper.

We're not dumb, you're just failing to include the (very common) issues with driver confusion and hesitation in yoir statements.

Driver confusion is a fixable problem. and hesitation exists on every intersection, regardless of what type is.

The only problem with roundabouts is when you have uneven traffic, for example, a major highway intercepts with lower traffic street, must of the traffic of the high way will just go straight, never giving a chance for the low traffic ones. On this scenario, if you are on the small street, you will wait longer to get in the roundabout. But it still beats having traffic lights.

Borzak · Oct 20, 2017

Hoss said:
Th house looks like it's got a mustache and a monocle. That's called class you fucking savage.

Where is that? i remember an intersection like that around the Lufkin / San Augustine area. I haven't been in that area in 10+ years so I guess I would't have seen the failed attempt to turn it into a roundabout. But I can see where they might have tried it with the weird one I remember.

It's in Louisiana. But no San Augistine has a traffic "circle" which is more like one highway has a wide turn lane basically. TXDOT came in and painted lines recently there and it was a disaster. Worked great for all my life 40+ years and suddenly it was a disaster. The lines didn't match up with the way people had used it forever, and out of towners just followed the locals since it was a busy intersection of 2 highways. Eventually TXDOT came back and painted over the lines with black paint lol. Hwy 96/21. I avoid Lufkin like the plague even having lived in Nacogdoches county for years once.

My grandmother is 96 and goes thru that traffic "circle" twice a week and she couldn't figure out why they changed it when it worked just fine. By busy highway I mean you normally see 4 cars or so going thru it while you're there lol.

Edit - nevermind. I asked my dad about it and he said they just put up a stop light there, no more circle. My parents still get the newspaper from there each week and all the wrecks are on the highway in the middle of nowhere, I don't know if they ever have one there other than maybe a fender bender.

Hoss · Oct 20, 2017

brozak I think you got your stories mixed up. You just told us about the same intersection twice.

Borzak · Oct 20, 2017

The first one I mentioned where you have to change lanes in the middle of the roundabout is in Louisiana and it's brand new. The news there had a story about them planning to remove it after 6 months

The last one is in San Augustine, TX. Sorry. Both of them apparently are in the process of being removed. So problem fixed. Apparently they work in rural areas till DOT tries to "improve" it and then it gets turned into a 4 way stop, even tho they worked as a roundabout before DOT got involved heavily.

Either way not my problem anymore. I haven't driven in almost 3 years now.

Lanx · Oct 20, 2017

Borzak said:
It's in Louisiana. But no San Augistine has a traffic "circle" which is more like one highway has a wide turn lane basically. TXDOT came in and painted lines recently there and it was a disaster. Worked great for all my life 40+ years and suddenly it was a disaster. The lines didn't match up with the way people had used it forever, and out of towners just followed the locals since it was a busy intersection of 2 highways. Eventually TXDOT came back and painted over the lines with black paint lol. Hwy 96/21. I avoid Lufkin like the plague even having lived in Nacogdoches county for years once.

My grandmother is 96 and goes thru that traffic "circle" twice a week and she couldn't figure out why they changed it when it worked just fine. By busy highway I mean you normally see 4 cars or so going thru it while you're there lol.

Edit - nevermind. I asked my dad about it and he said they just put up a stop light there, no more circle. My parents still get the newspaper from there each week and all the wrecks are on the highway in the middle of nowhere, I don't know if they ever have one there other than maybe a fender bender.

dis one?

Borzak · Oct 20, 2017

Yeah only one in town/county lol. It has a red light at it now according to my dad who just went there They got a federal grandt to put in sidewalks there, can't really remember seeing anyone walk there, it's not really "in town". Before that video it was a hybrid traffic circle, really wide turn lanes with no paintings on the road. The north/south highway had no stop signs/lights and the east/west had a stop sign. Worked pretty well. Big town of 2500, county 6k or so heh.

My family is from that county and still own land there as well as myself, they make a point of saying San Augustine county, and not San Augustine the city.

For years and years they had a giant sign there entering town "Oldest ANGLO town in Texas". I'm sure that would go over well nowdays.

Aldarion · Oct 20, 2017

Lendarios said:
4 cars in opposing vectors approach a traffic light -controlled intersection. all four car wish to turn right, out of those 2, only 2 can go right away, the other two have to come to full stops before making a right with on a red signal (even if no one is coming).

4 cars in opposing vectors approach a round about, they all wish to turn right. Not a single car stops and they all take the right at the same time, without stopping.

/yawn.

So in response to my post, which you quoted, in which I stated that the problem with roundabouts is caused by the fact that no one stops. And in response you say roundabouts are better because in some scenario they mean fewer cars have to stop.

Truly, a dizzying intellect.

Aldarion · Oct 20, 2017

Hoss said:
I'm enjoying reading how a TCOD should work better in theory as if all of us who are bitching about them haven't ever been in one.

lol how did I miss this.

Hoss won the thread on page 2 but we missed it and kept going

Ridas · Oct 20, 2017

Still don't understand aldarions problem. You are afraid of other cars and too slow to enter a roundabout? If a car leaves at the point you want to enter, you do so.

Aldarion · Oct 20, 2017

I explained it several times. Its a flawed system because two drivers approach the roundabout at the same time, there is no set system for right of way. Its whoever enters the roundabout first. So its a giant fucking game of chicken. This means no one waits their turn like civilized human beings.

Also, at a roundabout no one stops. So when a mistake happens and two cars enter the intersection at the same time, they are travelling quickly enough that its an actual accident. Whereas at a 4 way stop, the same accident is avoided (and not recorded as an accident) because the cars are starting from a dead stop and its trivially easy to stop quickly and avoid the accident.

4 way stop lights with sensors are the ideal. 4 way stops with stop signs are the next best thing. Roundabouts are something that only sounds good until you actually drive through one at which point any reasonable person says "WTF that was the stupidest intersection I've ever seen"

Ridas · Oct 20, 2017

2 drivers don't approach and enter at the same spot. Driver first in the roundabout has right of way. What game of chicken are you talking about? I drive a lot and never encountered this problem.

iannis · Oct 20, 2017

The problem with them around here is that they landscape them. Trees and shrubs all in the thing, with a raised center. You can't see shit.

Architects are god damn ignorant.

Palum · Oct 20, 2017

Ridas said:
2 drivers don't approach and enter at the same spot. Driver first in the roundabout has right of way. What game of chicken are you talking about? I drive a lot and never encountered this problem.

Yea that works on like a full sized rotary, there are a lot of undersized roundabouts that this is more a concern because little people entering to your left can t-bone you almost instantly due to the small size/speed of entry, so people overly hesitate if they are unsure drivers. Honestly it sounds like half you people have never even driven in one with other drivers, or you have that ones specifically made to slow traffic where almost everyone is just going straight on the main road.

Debate Roundabouts: Efficiency in Action or Vortex of Death

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