Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

GuardianX

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I'll date any movie star you name, before this game launches.

You in for 1000$?

Pretty sure I can date Taylor Swift in 2079.

You quoted the part that was me agreeing with the sentiment that the project can fail / won't ever finish and asked me how much I wanna bet on the project failing / not ever finishing?

Bitch u retarded?
 
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Faith

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My attachment to this game is mainly amusement and like...300--400 USD I think. I rarely, if ever, log in. My goal is to play it a bit when it releases, if ever.

That being said, lets be honest, this is a game in alpha / beta development that you can observe in process so:

Unplayable isn't correct, you CAN play the game but it isn't finished and it reflects GENERALLY the state of a game you would expect in its alpha / beta phase.

Empty isn't correct, it has stuff to do in it, about as much stuff as I would generally expect from an alpha / beta game.

The rest isn't directed at you, just my thoughts on all the people that salt on the project.

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Maybe I'm just "Meh" from all the alphas and betas I've done over the years but people are reacting to this game in such a harsh way and I just kinda laugh. I've seen games "release" that have less content than Star Citizen and no innovations at all. 90% of what I saw on E3 floor previous to the last decade was dumpster-fire garbage and it saw a release. All of those people had traditional funding and publishers backing a non-dangerous investment (that usually flopped).

Here you have a game studio that doesn't have an external publisher, their funding is VERY non-traditional (generally) and their product is about as non-canned as you can get. This is why I find it so comical that people get all salty about this game and it's general "Current" state, it's a near completely non-traditional project with a pipe-dream attached. It wouldn't, at all, be shocking if the project failed before it's completion, why do people constantly talk about it's potential failure as some sort of personal revelation?

Just sit back and watch the ride LOL.

The SC ride is like a small time version of the Trump ride:

You had Derek Smart try to sue SC
You had some pretty major Eve orgs bitch out
You have accusations of Scam
You have pay to win
You have broken promises
You have internal office strife
You have a boss that married his secretary
You have a boss that hired his brother as a major role

I mean really, after all of this people are still like, "HAHA but it may never come out!" no shit Nostradamus, LOL any other groundbreaking predictions you wanna make?

I agree that $3-400 is "nothing" but you are still a fucking retard to let them have that money instead of having a nice dinner. Really? You want to throw money at "Haha"? That is beyond stupid and retarded. You are the reason they can keep up this shit show.
 
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GuardianX

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I agree that $3-400 is "nothing" but you are still a fucking retard to let them have that money instead of having a nice dinner. Really? You want to throw money at "Haha"? That is beyond stupid and retarded. You are the reason they can keep up this shit show.

You aren't wrong. It's certainly not the BEST use of money but neither is eating fast food, getting coffee, paying for various in-game currencies / appearance items.

Either way I spent what I wanted to spend on something I found interesting.

If I bought 400 dollars of weed, smoked that 1 ounce in a single day of bong / vape infused glory, came here and started talking about it in a thread titled, "Weed I smoked - the search for more weed money continues" none of you salty motherfuckers would have half as much to say about it as you do, "Star Citizen and the search for more jaded space sim whales".
 
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Morrow

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haha, part 2 basically explains why people have issues with SC at the end.

The game isn't completely functional.

Read the brainwashed fanatic comments on the videos - they are hilarious. They have their heads so far into the sand they don't even operate in the same universe or reality. It's fascinating to watch.
 

Aaron

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Robbaz is simultaneously one of the more entertaining, and one of the more disturbing YT/Twitch broadcasters. If I ever hear about a Swedish serial killer who stalks gay dudes, I would not be surprised if when that person is caught the headlines would read something like "Prominent Twitch Broadcaster Arrested Over Gay Murders!"

But as to SC, I finally figured it out while watching those Robbaz vids. This is NOT a space sim. Seriously! It's not. It's Real Life 2.0. Coming to this realisation suddenly makes everything else make sense with regards to this "game": the endless development, all the money invested, pay to play, the intense simulation (toilet, facial recognition, clothing etc..)... this is all geared NOT to space sim (Elite does that already), but to a life simulation, that just happens to be in space.
 
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GuardianX

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Read the brainwashed fanatic comments on the videos - they are hilarious. They have their heads so far into the sand they don't even operate in the same universe or reality. It's fascinating to watch.

100%! It's honestly comical to me how deep some people go in trying to shill for the company. Like if you enjoy playing what is currently out there then fine, but don't shill that the game is in perfect shape.

It's an alpha product on a product that likely won't see a "meaningful" release til something like 2020 (Oh, it'll still be beta...) to say it's buggy is an understatement LOL. I loved the end of the video where EVEN with cuts you can tell Robbaz is getting salty at all the bugs. That death bug, ya I would have quit the first time it happened to me.

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The flip-side to the above is this thread LOL, jesus christ.

At least you would have *something* to show for the money, yes?

Faith Faith

The point I was making was to your concept of "Use of Money" in regards to being a good use or a bad use. My point is that yes, it is a bad use of money, just as buying a bunch of bullshit that doesn't directly better your life or quality of living would be. My statement is that, I KNOW it was a bad use of money but the expenditure brought me amusement / enjoyment, just as buying Disneyland passes for 2000 USD a year did or hundreds a month in Starbucks did...or any of the other various things that netted me a loss in funds with a marginal increase in overall life enjoyment.

You spent 3-400$ on star citizen and are asking me this?

Okay.

Punko Punko

I'm asking you that because you can't fucking read and quoted me a part of my own statement, where I indirectly agreed that the project COULD fail, in order to bet me money that...the project would fail...

No, you autistic motherfucker, I'm not going to bet money on a heavily risky game development project that I admitted has a chance at failing.
 
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Grim1

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Love the tech and videos, hate the cost of ships. I've said it before, just don't see how this game won't be pay to win.

They claim that you will be able to earn everything in game, but if you can get a $450 dollar ship in game in only a few days of farming then there are going to be some very pissed off early buyers.

But if you need a $450 dollar ship to stay alive and compete and it takes months or years to get in game, then most new players will bail on this game and get refunds within seconds.

I hope they have a viable plan for this game to not be P2W, but I just don't see how that is possible. They've painted themselves into a very ugly corner.
 
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Punko

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You aren't wrong.

He really isn't, especially in the part where he calls you a retard.

I'm asking you that because you can't fucking read and quoted me a part of my own statement, where I indirectly agreed that the project COULD fail, in order to bet me money that...the project would fail...

No, you autistic motherfucker, I'm not going to bet money on a heavily risky game development project that I admitted has a chance at failing.

Seems like you should have spent it on an anger-management course.
 

GuardianX

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Seems like you should have spent it on an anger-management course.

Why would I treat you with anything other than sarcasm and swearing?

You are a barely functioning autistic gamer, you can't even comprehend what you read, think beyond your own nose, or outside of your own shoes before hitting that reply button.

Are you REALLY worth a deep conversation?

No.
 
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Faith

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Faith Faith

The point I was making was to your concept of "Use of Money" in regards to being a good use or a bad use. My point is that yes, it is a bad use of money, just as buying a bunch of bullshit that doesn't directly better your life or quality of living would be. My statement is that, I KNOW it was a bad use of money but the expenditure brought me amusement / enjoyment, just as buying Disneyland passes for 2000 USD a year did or hundreds a month in Starbucks did...or any of the other various things that netted me a loss in funds with a marginal increase in overall life enjoyment.

Oh Im fine with you doing whatever you want with your money, hell we all blow cash on shit we dont need. What I don´t understand is;

Why put money into this? There is zero need to put money into this dumpsterfire. You get the forum giggles for free, free flight weekends, all their videos are free and so on.

With all the shady shit they are doing (no refunds, breaking their own promise to show the financials if they didnt deliver the game by...2016 I think it was, conventions they obviously blow backer money on while promising that every cent will go to "development", the legal issues with Crytek, 100 shell companys..) there are red flags all over the place.

Again; why put money into it?

I agree its very entertaining to follow this, but paying for it? I just don´t get it :)
 

AladainAF

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These things are why backing kickstarter style campaigns (and similar) are almost always scams or ripoffs.

They have a vision. They map out the vision. They make their kickstarter around that vision. All is good. But then, they end up raising a LOT of money over what they were asking for, and then start promising all these new things on a whim, without doing the same due diligence as they did on the original project to see if its even feasible. Then it almost always turns into overpromising and underdelivering (or not delivering at all) to the point the final product turns into something completely not what the original vision was, nor what was promised with all the extra money raised.

Even overly successful things such as Grim Dawn or Path of Exile had their hiccups and fuckups in the kick starter campaign. For example, GD completely fucked up their early access stuff (to the extent some people that donated to the kickstarter campaign didnt get early access and some people that didnt donate AT ALL did get it). And Path of Exile completely fucked up physical deliverables and they were super super late.

Another example that takes the cake -- the Mighty No. 9 fiasco. It would be more palpable to donate to these things if they asked for X dollars for a project, and upon raising X dollars, its closed. No more donations. Thank you, have a nice day. Then you get the vision and what you paid for. But by allowing for continual donations, you encourage any bullshit "stretch goals" possible just to get more and more money. It's silly.
 
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GuardianX

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Oh Im fine with you doing whatever you want with your money, hell we all blow cash on shit we dont need. What I don´t understand is;

Why put money into this? There is zero need to put money into this dumpsterfire. You get the forum giggles for free, free flight weekends, all their videos are free and so on.

With all the shady shit they are doing (no refunds, breaking their own promise to show the financials if they didnt deliver the game by...2016 I think it was, conventions they obviously blow backer money on while promising that every cent will go to "development", the legal issues with Crytek, 100 shell companys..) there are red flags all over the place.

Again; why put money into it?

I agree its very entertaining to follow this, but paying for it? I just don´t get it :)

Why?

Well a couple reasons (second being the most important):

1. I liked what they were selling in terms of ideas at the time and wanted to put money towards funding. (My last major purchase was like 5 years ago. the 15$ was an up-exchange on an item.)

1540139284179.png


2. I make terrible financial decisions when it comes to video-games.

So, I mean, you could argue that the last time I spent money on this game was 2015 and you wouldn't be wrong but the last time I REALLY spent money was the end of 2013. If the game releases I'll have some cool things to do, if it doesn't then I'm not going to lose any sleep.

TL;DR of this section -- Because I wanted to and the game looked interesting back when I dropped money on the funding.

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Breaking this into a sub quote:

no refunds

I honestly think allowing refunds was the dumbest thing they could do, they should have set it up, legally, to not allow refunds from day one (if possible). Why would you allow people to fund your shit and then offer to allow them the ability to pull funds out from under you MID development? That sounds like a TERRIBLE plan along the likes of Kurt Shillings studio where you are banking on money that isn't there hoping that your payday comes before the lenders come calling (Yes, I know Shillings company was doing fraud). It doesn't help that ALL of the people I know that did refunds were TERRIBLE financially, it kinda taints my perspective of the people crying about lack of a refund. They spent rent money on it, food money on it...you name the necessity and they spent the money "Allocated" for it on SC shit. Had a guy in one of my communities that spent his disability for the month (for a couple months) on a TON of Star Citizen shit, THOUSANDS of dollars this dude NEEDED to be using in a better way...on digital ships that his fatass won't even live to fly (I mean technically I won't either, but I'm 35 and lived a healthy life...maybe my kids will be able to see SC release, I know my grand children will!)

breaking their own promise to show the financials if they didnt deliver the game by...2016 I think it was

Meh, this I don't care about, I agree they should stick to their promises, but I can understand why they wouldn't. My guess this is for a very simple reason, they are making a LOT of money from both backers AND private investment (from places like Intel, Nvidia, ect...), they likely fear that to show all those financials would kill their golden goose (the fairly stable income from backers and subs). They would rather take the hit on the reputation and just chug along, legal...but not really ethical...

conventions they obviously blow backer money on while promising that every cent will go to "development"

Conventions are financial drivers for them at this point, I honestly wonder how much of an up-tick in sales they received since doing the CitizenCon. I would assume it's a non-insignificant number.

the legal issues with Crytek

I am not 100% familiar with the case but I thought it was largely dismissed as it was an attempt at a shakedown since crytek basically went under a while before they sued them and now SC is using a completely different engine (LumberYard -- Amazon). From the little I read it sounded bad at first, then I saw that Crytek doesn't even exist anymore, then I saw they hadn't even "Existed" (in a development sense) for a year or so before their legal team decided to fire up a lawsuit.

100 shell companys

Not familiar with this one, are you talking about the dozens of development studios they have going concurrently or something else?

I know they have like 2-4 "Offices" based around the world and then like a couple dozen small partners doing various things like weapon designs and what not. If that is what you mean by "shell companies", I just chalk it up to the "C" level people being inexperienced at development and trying to do things the most efficient way possible but not being cost effective. I mean Roberts worked in the film industry for a bit before this project and, as far as I am aware, that industry does things very similarly to this with small companies doing work for singular scenes. Either way, I chalk it up to lack of experience in the industry not generally intent to defraud.

---

Maybe the above sheds some light on my perspective on all of this.
 

Faith

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Refunds; They actually have to allow them since they include VAT in the price, that means its open for refunds until delivery in the EU at least. What they are doing now (regarding EU customers) is stalling, promising a "refund specialist" (erm wut?) will "look into it". Its been that way since january.

Shelll companys; No, not about the studios, they have so many shell companys to shovel around money (and Im guessing, paying the top guys) its not even funny. What they are doing is sending the money from the US to the UK to the german branch and around again. This is pointless UNLESS someone at the top is getting a slice from every transaction....

List as of now;

  1. Cloud Imperium Games Corp, West Hollywood, CA
  2. Cloud Imperium Games LLC, West Hollywood, CA
  3. Cloud Imperium Services LLC, West Hollywood, CA
  4. Cloud Imperium Games LLC, Santa Monica, CA
  5. Cloud Imperium Games Texas LLC, West Hollywood, CA
  6. Cloud Imperium Games Texas LLC, Austin, TX
  7. Cloud Imperium Games UK Limited, UK
  8. Foundry 42 Limited, UK
  9. Foundry 42, Germany
  10. Gemini 42 Entertainment LLC, West Hollywood, CA
  11. Gemini 42 Productions LLC, Santa Monica, CA
  12. Roberts Space Industries Corp, West Hollywood, CA
  13. Roberts Space Industries International Limited, UK
  14. Twin Brothers Productions Inc, West Hollywood, CA
  15. Twin Bros. GmbH, Germany

The legal issues with Crytek; They had an exclusive deal going with Crytek, now they switched to Amazons version in stead, and no it was in no way, shape or form dismissed. They will burn to the ground when this is settled but it will take years due to how inept the US is in handling cases.

The financials; THEY made the promise to show them if they didnt deliver, and guess what? They still have not delivered either the game or the records. I just find it odd that if they have nothing to hide they can not make good on their promise.
 
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GuardianX

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Refunds; They actually have to allow them since they include VAT in the price, that means its open for refunds until delivery in the EU at least. What they are doing now (regarding EU customers) is stalling, promising a "refund specialist" (erm wut?) will "look into it". Its been that way since january.

Shelll companys; No, not about the studios, they have so many shell companys to shovel around money (and Im guessing, paying the top guys) its not even funny. What they are doing is sending the money from the US to the UK to the german branch and around again. This is pointless UNLESS someone at the top is getting a slice from every transaction....

List as of now;

  1. Cloud Imperium Games Corp, West Hollywood, CA
  2. Cloud Imperium Games LLC, West Hollywood, CA
  3. Cloud Imperium Services LLC, West Hollywood, CA
  4. Cloud Imperium Games LLC, Santa Monica, CA
  5. Cloud Imperium Games Texas LLC, West Hollywood, CA
  6. Cloud Imperium Games Texas LLC, Austin, TX
  7. Cloud Imperium Games UK Limited, UK
  8. Foundry 42 Limited, UK
  9. Foundry 42, Germany
  10. Gemini 42 Entertainment LLC, West Hollywood, CA
  11. Gemini 42 Productions LLC, Santa Monica, CA
  12. Roberts Space Industries Corp, West Hollywood, CA
  13. Roberts Space Industries International Limited, UK
  14. Twin Brothers Productions Inc, West Hollywood, CA
  15. Twin Bros. GmbH, Germany

The legal issues with Crytek; They had an exclusive deal going with Crytek, now they switched to Amazons version in stead, and no it was in no way, shape or form dismissed. They will burn to the ground when this is settled but it will take years due to how inept the US is in handling cases.

The financials; THEY made the promise to show them if they didnt deliver, and guess what? They still have not delivered either the game or the records. I just find it odd that if they have nothing to hide they can not make good on their promise.

I understand that under non-US laws a refund is nearly required in all other countries, that's why I mentioned "Legally" in that instance, I'm not 100% familiar with all other laws regarding Consumer Protections. Honestly though, that would be MY action LOL not the action that I would push on CIG.

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In RE the "Shells", it seems more an attempt to game payroll (or get better tax results) than an attempt to shuffle funds. Though you make a good point to this, without the financials we can't really see what is going on and how.

Just looking at some of those though it seems more about general payroll than fund obfuscation.

Number 6 seems odd -- All the rest have the same people as key but this one is some random guy working in a building that, at one point, housed "turnitin" and some other programming based company. Who knows, maybe it's some guy trying to cash in on holding a name.

Number 14 -- Seems like a side project, who knows.

Either way, I don't know anything about the business aspect of what Chris is familiar with, Hollywood. The question would likely be better directed at Screamfeeder, I wonder if he knows if it is common to have 20 shells on a production.

For the financials though, meh I'm pretty confident in calling that one. They won't ever release them unless forced to, shit I wouldn't even if I had made a campaign promise to do so. There is literally nothing to gain from releasing your financials but some random peoples good will. Most people can barely balance a checkbook much less understand financials and WHY financials are what they say they are, sure it would reveal some reasons on WHY they have 15 "Shell Companies" but it would also open themselves up to a thousand Derek Smarts who basically take advantage of peoples stupidity and push their own agenda.

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In Re: Crytek, I really don't think it will play out against them, if anything they will settle or reach a deal. I VERY much so doubt they will fold based on a premise of "they stopped using our product!" ultimately...who knows..

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If I was not invested at all in this project today and I saw it on reddit, I think I would toss the minimum amount at it in order to buy in. Shit, I've bought games I've played less time for more than the buy-into SC.

Bought Destiny 2...god what a fucking mess that game was...

The Division...again what a joke...the exploits that were possible day 1 from a SEASONED dev crew. Took them MONTHS / A YEAR to fix most of their shit.

ESO...such a disappointment

BDO...Amazing game but man the drama every time they make a change is rage inducing.

I bought the latest FFXIV expansion and have not played it at all through no fault of the game but just pure busyness on my part...
 

Punko

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I think at least a number of the ships that are being sold are being bought by some of the subsidiaries of CGI.

Nothing pushes a whale like the idea "other people will have better stuff".