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Depends on who invested and what amount. If its the average joe's money, no one. If its an investment firm, yes. investor fraud is a real thing and people will go to prison, but only if ppl who "matter" invested in any form.
Star Citizen Online - The search for more money
- Thread starter Agenor
- Start date
Depends on who invested and what amount. If its the average joe's money, no one. If its an investment firm, yes. investor fraud is a real thing and people will go to prison, but only if ppl who "matter" invested in any form.
Aaron
Goonsquad Officer
- 8,093
- 17,871
That reminds me of the "warning lights" that went off inside my mind way back when (10+ years ago) when they first announced Walking in Stations. The concept was you'd run/walk from your cockpit and exit your ship, go to your agent's physical location, get a mission, go all the way back and then fly out. A process that would take ~5 minutes instead of opening a menu an chatting with him remotely ~10-20 seconds.
Sure, you would have "muh imershun" but that shit gets old fast except for hardcore diehards and autists.
That said I was chatting with someone on Twitch the other day about these "problems" and they emphatically disagreed and couldn't wait for this deep simulation.
Sure, you would have "muh imershun" but that shit gets old fast except for hardcore diehards and autists.
That said I was chatting with someone on Twitch the other day about these "problems" and they emphatically disagreed and couldn't wait for this deep simulation.
- 1
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
Honestly in what little I have done it does feel pretty neat to run around the station do your shopping then hit the hanger to get your ship prepped and then launched. On stater ships reaching orbit takes a while but it really makes you feel how big it is. I am not sure how big of a market there is for a hardcore space sim but I can see the appeal for those who want it.
Valderen
Space Pirate
- 4,450
- 2,620
After playing this a bit more this weekend, I have a few more things to add.
I won't cover bugs, or instability or missing features since it's alpha, mostly about gameplay decisions, and how the game feels when it works.
If I can resume, I'll it's strangely satisfying but ultimately tedious and boring. Whether some of this is going to change from now to release(lol) I don't know.
If I had to compare the pacing of the game, I would compare it to Death Stranding.
In DS you pick packs, and then deliver then to your destination, just walking (not talking about BTs and Mules), it sounds very boring, but there is something fun about it, you're constantly doing something in DS from selecting your path to keeping your balance, there's not really a moment where you're not actively involved in the simple act of walking to your destination. In SC, to do something similar like delivering cargo, you'll spend the majority of your time doing nothing, and I mean literally NOTHING, as in NO input from you at all, you just stare at the screen twiddling your thumbs, or going AFK and watching YouTube videos about what other you should be playing instead.
I'm not sure if that's something that will change either, I think that's how it is designed to work. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll add stuff to do, maybe while in QT you'll have to monitor engines, shields, power etc...and make adjustments creating something similar to DS feel of always doing something while just walking, always making decisions.
That's doing cargo hauling, but doing bounties and other more action oriented missions isn't that different either. You need to fly where the mission is, and that's doing NOTHING again, obviously the payoffs of space fighting is a lot of fun and a lot of action...but the problem is getting there.
There's simply way too much downtime where you do nothing in the game, without exaggeration a typical hour of cargo hauling is probably 45 minutes of being mostly AFK or very limited input.
Now you might think that doing action oriented mission will be more active and more fun, and it is in some ways, but you still spend too much time traveling with NO or very limited input. Now understand this, and this is actually more fun if you suck at space battle, this is the epitome of bad game design. The thing is if you're really good at the game and have a great ship, the space battle end quickly so you're back to QT to your next destination increasing the amount you spend traveling in your 1 hour session, if like me you suck and have a bad ship, the space battle last much longer, so in my hour I'll spend more time doing space battle than traveling because I'm slow to kill my targets.
If they ever manage to release this, unless there's major design philosophy changes, it will be a niche game at best. I think similar to Death Stranding though, if you like what it offers, you might have a great time.
Right now, I'm more interested in the Squadron 42 single player which based on the fun that is piloting ships, I can see the single player story driven game be a lot of fun. Based on the lawsuit with Crytek where Crytek is asking to dismiss their own case so they can refile it later based on stuff they discovered about Squadron 42..it looks like Squadron 42 is set to release in 2020.
I won't cover bugs, or instability or missing features since it's alpha, mostly about gameplay decisions, and how the game feels when it works.
If I can resume, I'll it's strangely satisfying but ultimately tedious and boring. Whether some of this is going to change from now to release(lol) I don't know.
If I had to compare the pacing of the game, I would compare it to Death Stranding.
In DS you pick packs, and then deliver then to your destination, just walking (not talking about BTs and Mules), it sounds very boring, but there is something fun about it, you're constantly doing something in DS from selecting your path to keeping your balance, there's not really a moment where you're not actively involved in the simple act of walking to your destination. In SC, to do something similar like delivering cargo, you'll spend the majority of your time doing nothing, and I mean literally NOTHING, as in NO input from you at all, you just stare at the screen twiddling your thumbs, or going AFK and watching YouTube videos about what other you should be playing instead.
I'm not sure if that's something that will change either, I think that's how it is designed to work. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll add stuff to do, maybe while in QT you'll have to monitor engines, shields, power etc...and make adjustments creating something similar to DS feel of always doing something while just walking, always making decisions.
That's doing cargo hauling, but doing bounties and other more action oriented missions isn't that different either. You need to fly where the mission is, and that's doing NOTHING again, obviously the payoffs of space fighting is a lot of fun and a lot of action...but the problem is getting there.
There's simply way too much downtime where you do nothing in the game, without exaggeration a typical hour of cargo hauling is probably 45 minutes of being mostly AFK or very limited input.
Now you might think that doing action oriented mission will be more active and more fun, and it is in some ways, but you still spend too much time traveling with NO or very limited input. Now understand this, and this is actually more fun if you suck at space battle, this is the epitome of bad game design. The thing is if you're really good at the game and have a great ship, the space battle end quickly so you're back to QT to your next destination increasing the amount you spend traveling in your 1 hour session, if like me you suck and have a bad ship, the space battle last much longer, so in my hour I'll spend more time doing space battle than traveling because I'm slow to kill my targets.
If they ever manage to release this, unless there's major design philosophy changes, it will be a niche game at best. I think similar to Death Stranding though, if you like what it offers, you might have a great time.
Right now, I'm more interested in the Squadron 42 single player which based on the fun that is piloting ships, I can see the single player story driven game be a lot of fun. Based on the lawsuit with Crytek where Crytek is asking to dismiss their own case so they can refile it later based on stuff they discovered about Squadron 42..it looks like Squadron 42 is set to release in 2020.
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Cybsled
Avatar of War Slayer
- 16,438
- 12,081
if they don’t have three boobs, then the game has no hope
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Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 45,409
- 73,480
This was one of my major complaints anytime I looked into Star citizen too.In DS you pick packs, and then deliver then to your destination, just walking (not talking about BTs and Mules), it sounds very boring, but there is something fun about it, you're constantly doing something in DS from selecting your path to keeping your balance, there's not really a moment where you're not actively involved in the simple act of walking to your destination. In SC, to do something similar like delivering cargo, you'll spend the majority of your time doing nothing, and I mean literally NOTHING, as in NO input from you at all, you just stare at the screen twiddling your thumbs, or going AFK and watching YouTube videos about what other you should be playing instead.
Like, there's a reason why in the Expanse tv show there aren't hour long episodes where you just watch Alex watching the Rosinante fly itself to a different station.
Star Citizen is so far removed from making a fun game that there's probably no hope it'll ever return. If it "releases" there are so many people who have blown $1000s on it that will play it and realize the game just isn't that fun.
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shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,408
- 185
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
Honestly fhose who are spending 1000s on it I think probably will get the game they want eventually but the question is how big of a market is there for such a hardcore space sim. I put 45 in for the starter ship stuff and have plinked around in it enough I probably already got my money worth. It really is pretty nifty just walking out into vacuum to my ship and dropping the hatch and actually walking around in my ship. The only other game I have ever really seen that in was starwars galaxies with their bigger multicrew ships.
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
Also one kinda odd feature with the travel times is the really big lumbering freighter looking things like the caterpillar are actually fast as fuck in quantum travel. My buddy with his big ass freighter can go from one planet to another in a couple minutes where it takes about 10-15 on my speedy looking shuttle. But the atmospheric flight speeds of my lil ship are faster so there are legit reasons for bigger vessels to carry and use shuttle craft/parasite ships. If you dock your small ship on a big one you can catch a ride which makes some of the run around quests a lot better.
I honestly expect a lot of the qt times and orbital times to get tweaked a lot in alpha they already sped up the starter ships QT speed in the last patch.
I honestly expect a lot of the qt times and orbital times to get tweaked a lot in alpha they already sped up the starter ships QT speed in the last patch.
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Valderen
Space Pirate
- 4,450
- 2,620
I haven't had a chance to fly a big ship yet, the biggest I flown is the Freelancer which is a medium size and only because there's a bug of some kind and the fix was to give everyone a Freelancer.
The major issue right now for me in a few days of playing is the Quantum Travel times and the fact that you do literally nothing while it's happening, and you QT a lot. The rest of the game while not necessarily the greatest, is still actually pretty fun to be honest.
It also just came to me because of
kaid
's post above that Quantum Travel time are different in different ships. Right now I have a basic starter ship, and I haven't upgrade it's quantum engine either...so I can't speak for how much QT times can be reduced to by having a better ship that is upgraded. It might be less of an issue.
I'm pretty sure they won't reduce the travel time thought since they're going for hardcore simulation. My hope is they introduce stuff to do while traveling, for example having a "mini-game" of sorts where you monitor power, shields, course adjustment, etc and managing those reduces QT times a bit. Or simply have "events" occur while you travel, like right now you can pulled out of QT by the police and scanned, have distress calls, or something shows up on radar and you stop to rescue another ship.
In the end either reduce travel time, or keep us busy while we travel...the absolutely no input required for 5+ minutes just won't work long term for anyone beside super niche audience.
Homework for tonight, check how much a better Quantum Drive cost for my ship and if I can afford it see how much it improves travel time.
The major issue right now for me in a few days of playing is the Quantum Travel times and the fact that you do literally nothing while it's happening, and you QT a lot. The rest of the game while not necessarily the greatest, is still actually pretty fun to be honest.
It also just came to me because of
kaid
's post above that Quantum Travel time are different in different ships. Right now I have a basic starter ship, and I haven't upgrade it's quantum engine either...so I can't speak for how much QT times can be reduced to by having a better ship that is upgraded. It might be less of an issue. I'm pretty sure they won't reduce the travel time thought since they're going for hardcore simulation. My hope is they introduce stuff to do while traveling, for example having a "mini-game" of sorts where you monitor power, shields, course adjustment, etc and managing those reduces QT times a bit. Or simply have "events" occur while you travel, like right now you can pulled out of QT by the police and scanned, have distress calls, or something shows up on radar and you stop to rescue another ship.
In the end either reduce travel time, or keep us busy while we travel...the absolutely no input required for 5+ minutes just won't work long term for anyone beside super niche audience.
Homework for tonight, check how much a better Quantum Drive cost for my ship and if I can afford it see how much it improves travel time.
Valderen
Space Pirate
- 4,450
- 2,620
I did my homework, I bought a new Quantum Drive.
Port Olissar to ArcCorp I managed to reduce my travel time from 8:44 to 6:55 which a pretty decent upgrade, but still way too long to be doing nothing. This is with a size 1 drive which is the size that fits on my ship.
I'm broke now though, cost 24K and only had like 30K credits.
Port Olissar to ArcCorp I managed to reduce my travel time from 8:44 to 6:55 which a pretty decent upgrade, but still way too long to be doing nothing. This is with a size 1 drive which is the size that fits on my ship.
I'm broke now though, cost 24K and only had like 30K credits.
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
I think in a lot of ways star citizen is going for kinda the eq1 experience. Some forced downtime to wander around your ship/chat with people/ possibly use some other ship stations to do stuff while you travel. Flying around on some friends big ships flying around in qt is mostly our time to wander around the ship and chill out for a bit where we are mostly safe from random attacks other than people running interdiction fields. I am not sure how okay people are with this kind of thing these days but overall it did not bother me much. If they can add more stuff to do in this downtime it would be even better yet.
I think finding the sweet spot of downtime that takes a while but not offending people and being so long people are bored is going to be tricky. Still given how big the QT time differences are between the top end jump engines and the starters they clearly have a pretty serious range of time they are testing. I think in the 3.8 patch the qt speeds of the starter ship engines was sped up some or at least it felt that way for me.
I think finding the sweet spot of downtime that takes a while but not offending people and being so long people are bored is going to be tricky. Still given how big the QT time differences are between the top end jump engines and the starters they clearly have a pretty serious range of time they are testing. I think in the 3.8 patch the qt speeds of the starter ship engines was sped up some or at least it felt that way for me.
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kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
Oh random aside they are in theory going to add some light survival mechanics at some point of needing food/drink/sleep and you see a lot of the ships have small kitchens/bathrooms/bunks and what not. So in theory if that stuff gets added using the facilities is probably what you do during downtime.
- 1
Valderen
Space Pirate
- 4,450
- 2,620
The issue right now with the travel time is more that there is NOTHING to do while traveling and not necessarily how long they are, if they add activities that you can do, the the travel time would be fine.
The other part is that they need room to reduce travel time when you improve things like drive quality, ship quality and "pathfinders" finding new jump making travel possibly faster.
If things remains as is though, it will be a problem.
The other part is that they need room to reduce travel time when you improve things like drive quality, ship quality and "pathfinders" finding new jump making travel possibly faster.
If things remains as is though, it will be a problem.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,420
- 11,625
If travel is made interactive and fun then why would they need, or want, to make it faster? Seems plenty of game designs end up in this predicament and it usually means all the resources they put into designing realistic "meaningful" travel were wasted on stupid shit that is bypassed by fasttravel later. Wasted resources seems to be what this game is, though.
Plus one to adding in-game bathrooms that need to be used, though. Maybe make it hyper realistic and while your ship is auto piloting you can go to your quarters and pull up some in game porn and rub one out in real life to alien boobs.
Plus one to adding in-game bathrooms that need to be used, though. Maybe make it hyper realistic and while your ship is auto piloting you can go to your quarters and pull up some in game porn and rub one out in real life to alien boobs.
Woffer
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 403
- 342
Isn't one of the issues that there's very little to do at each location so you have to spend proportionally a lot of time traveling? If you could stay on or around ArcCorp for 3-4h doing bounty missions or genuine quest chains 10 min to get to Hurston after would not be that annoying.
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
Well in theory once they add the jump points and other solar systems they may wind up having to make travel faster in a system because if you are traveling farther out the delays may add up. There already is a pretty big difference between the fastest engines to the slower ones found in starter ships. It can be as much as 10 or so minutes faster on the big trade ships. They are not very fast flight speed but their jump speed is fast as hell. It makes cargo runs pretty painless in the big ships because they are very efficient in point to point speeds. Given how interesting and fully modeled the interiors are of a lot of ships in the long run making more reasons to do stuff inside the ship when traveling would both help with the downtime feeling and since they have these interesting assets use them.
This game has a long way to go before it gets really launched I would think and squadron 42 may actually help the main game a great deal because the game play loops are going to have be improved a good bit to be interesting in a single player game.
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
This is an issue a lot of what is there now is pretty much statically generated hand crafted stuff which is nice but not very scaleable. Their whole economy/threat/response model they were talking about in the last citizencon + more dynamically created content is very necessary to flesh things out. One big issue was until they finished up some of their container tech so the game was only dealing with specific stuff at a time they were running into literal hardware limitations of there being so much stuff that it was bottlenecking them. In theory 3.8 and the next couple patches should see that bottleneck clear which opens the doors for adding new solar systems and more ability to add stuff without murdering their servers.
