Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
- Thread starter Aaron
- Start date
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 5,538
- 790
Except that Luke did get some training from Obi Wan. Rey, as far as we know it, has only received training from that orange midget who was a jedi.
I don't need him to be another movie bad-ass, and I'm fine with him being damaged and confused and even immature. But there's nothing intimidating about his countenance, voice, or design. I can see it being intentional (he's just a Vader devotee), but the other problem is that this character is going to be hard (should be impossible) to redeem -- he killed his dad, Han Solo no less! Not sure where they are going with Kylo's arc, but at least they beat him up to presumably make him stronger.
Here's how I would frame it up -- would you wear a T-Shirt with Vader's mask on it? Would you wear a T-shirt with Kylo's mask or face on it? Or what little kid would want to be Kylo Ren for Halloween?
Some drunk ramblings, here's a theory:
Remember the vision scene we see where Rey is facing off against the "Knights of Ren" and seems to be about to be struck down and the assailant get run through by apparently Kylo's blade? Here's my few points in that.
1) It's a vision from the future. Future is based on emotion (ESB). Doesn't have to be the way things are.
2) Kylo Ren saves Rey because he's in love with her (crazy obsession + immature tantrum + loves what he can't have/beat).
3) Rey doesn't give a shit about Ren, ends up killing him. Goes Darkside. Big reveal in the second movie ala "I am your father".
Ren is a very weak character. Very weak mentally and self-esteem wise. Needs to wear a mask to intimidate with his "parlor tricks". Throws tantrums. He has power as in he has abilities no one else does but he doesn't have the aptitude to wield them like a Vador or someone else. He's a child pretending to be a grown up for the most part. He killed his father because of theorycrafting reasons. I don't see how you transition a character from throwing a tantrum in a room where you see Stromtroopers turn the other way into a badass that is a main villain.
That's the crux of the whole series. You don't have a villain. You have Snokes but he's some kind of unreal imaginary/background villain like the Emperor. There is no Vader here. You need to twist a knife into the audience and introduce someone that you're emotionally attached to that you believe will ruin your day. Do you really think Kylo is scary and oppressive? He's just some whiny young shit pretending to be a badass. That does not lend itself to a good story later on. Can you really write a story that takes the character that is essentially a brat and turn him into a dreaded figure over the arc of a three part story? We've seen him unmasked (big hint). We've seen his weakness. We've seen him act unsettled. What we need to really look for is a villain to fear. No one fears Kylo Ren who got beat by a startup "Jedi" and a ex-stormtrooper who saw one half a battle.
I know it's a long shot, but I can see Rey turning into that badass that you fear. It would be quite a turn similar to Vader's "I am your father" moment. Rey has already shown anger/passion/fear which leads to the darkside!
Anyway, I can see it happening.
Remember the vision scene we see where Rey is facing off against the "Knights of Ren" and seems to be about to be struck down and the assailant get run through by apparently Kylo's blade? Here's my few points in that.
1) It's a vision from the future. Future is based on emotion (ESB). Doesn't have to be the way things are.
2) Kylo Ren saves Rey because he's in love with her (crazy obsession + immature tantrum + loves what he can't have/beat).
3) Rey doesn't give a shit about Ren, ends up killing him. Goes Darkside. Big reveal in the second movie ala "I am your father".
Ren is a very weak character. Very weak mentally and self-esteem wise. Needs to wear a mask to intimidate with his "parlor tricks". Throws tantrums. He has power as in he has abilities no one else does but he doesn't have the aptitude to wield them like a Vador or someone else. He's a child pretending to be a grown up for the most part. He killed his father because of theorycrafting reasons. I don't see how you transition a character from throwing a tantrum in a room where you see Stromtroopers turn the other way into a badass that is a main villain.
That's the crux of the whole series. You don't have a villain. You have Snokes but he's some kind of unreal imaginary/background villain like the Emperor. There is no Vader here. You need to twist a knife into the audience and introduce someone that you're emotionally attached to that you believe will ruin your day. Do you really think Kylo is scary and oppressive? He's just some whiny young shit pretending to be a badass. That does not lend itself to a good story later on. Can you really write a story that takes the character that is essentially a brat and turn him into a dreaded figure over the arc of a three part story? We've seen him unmasked (big hint). We've seen his weakness. We've seen him act unsettled. What we need to really look for is a villain to fear. No one fears Kylo Ren who got beat by a startup "Jedi" and a ex-stormtrooper who saw one half a battle.
I know it's a long shot, but I can see Rey turning into that badass that you fear. It would be quite a turn similar to Vader's "I am your father" moment. Rey has already shown anger/passion/fear which leads to the darkside!
Anyway, I can see it happening.
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 5,538
- 790
Except that Luke did get some training from Obi Wan. Rey, as far as we know it, has only received training from that orange midget who was a jedi. And speaking of her (Star Wars: The Force Awakens: Maz Kanata Problems | Collider).
Tarrant
<Prior Amod>
- 15,572
- 9,022
I think this is sort of brilliant. It would solve my problems/questions with Kylo.
Would Finn be the one to turn back Rey or kill her?
Foggy
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,246
- 4,815
He isn't suppose to be a Vader. Also, I bet kids have a different view of him than adults. Vader was also an incredibly one dimensional character until Empire. Additional, it isn't fair to compare the Kylo character to one of the, if not the, best villains ever.
I felt bad for Kylo by the end of the movie. He was clearly in pain and I think he really wanted to be saved. I loved the character, second only to Rey. He was everything Anakin should have been.
Foggy
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,246
- 4,815
If one trip in a ship is all the training you need then I'm sure the training she received as a child is good enough.
khorum
Murder Apologist
- 24,338
- 81,363
They cut out a lot of maz's scenes that were in the novelization. But since most of it was dialogue exposition instead of flashbacks, I could see why. I tend to agree with the concerns about her CGI tho.
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
- 15,077
- 10,641
It's mixed bag but there are some gems in there.
*into mirror* apology ACCEPTED, captain needa
*voice cracks unexpectedly*
Jive Turkey
Karen
- 6,650
- 8,869
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 5,538
- 790
Right, but she can lecture on the Force, and give Rey enough info to power up and beat Kylo Ren, who has been trained by a Sith Overlord? It doesn't make any sense. She fulfilled Obi Wan's role in Ep IV. How?
As the article said, the character didn't make sense at all, and they did too much with her. She was an orange Yoda. She ran a cantina inside her royal palace. If she has a royal palace, why is she running a cantina from it? She had a statue erected to her. She was this ep's Obi Wan, and in the end, all she did was hand the lightsaber off and disappear. The character made no sense.
Jive Turkey
Karen
- 6,650
- 8,869
Just read the article you linked to. Can't say I disagree with most of it. With all the mystery surrounding Maz before the release, I was really hoping for something really cool. I hardly even think about her when I think about the movie (except the way she delivered the line "I like that wookie". Might've been the funniest part). And ya, the CG is a little rough. Which is weird considering how awesome Gollum looked 10 years ago. At this point with CG, the limiting factor is artistry and time, not technology.
But ya, a somewhat forgettable character. I wonder if the decision to cut her presence short had as much to do with JJ realizing she wasn't a strong character as it did with her no longer pushing the story forward
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
- 15,077
- 10,641
I don't think fear was the allure of Vader. He was simply awe inspiring in a ruthless, terrible way. And he was calculating. You feared what he might do but he was often glorious to behold doing it.
I don't think Ren will go in that direction either for much the reasons you've mentioned. What they've established so far doesn't lend itself to that. But it doesn't really need to either. Better than the villain you fear is the villain you hate. Ren is an older Joffrey Baratheon with a light saber. I can very much see them developing him in that vein. There's no redemption from that for the audience.
khorum
Murder Apologist
- 24,338
- 81,363
I thought that was a really clever part about how they wrote Kylo Ren. They took all the anxiety and pressure of TRYING to write a villain that could fill the shoes of someone as iconic as Darth Fucking Vader and just rolled all those insecurities into a character that KNEW he could never live up to his grandfather. Then they just let all that frustration and rage inform his menace. In the end he couldn't even live up to his own standards and he gets beaten by a girl.
He's like the Cuck Vader for a millenial generation.
He's like the Cuck Vader for a millenial generation.
Rhanyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,017
- 1,394