Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

Malakriss said:

Has anyone considered that toxic space plastics leftover from the Jedi ruins leaked into the environment, contaminated the creature's milk (which is why it is green) and after years of consuming it that is why Luke turned into a pussy and died prematurely?

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Woke

The Nissan one is pretty bad too.

Phazael said:

I would bet money that Kennedy wants to make a Mara character just to shit on fans a bunch more, since she is one of the main quashers of the EU stuff. Normal people react to criticism by taking a new approach or refining things. But KK and her SJW band are going to double down, of course. If you want to see how to do decent diversity (and have a sense of humor about it), Deadpool 2 nails it perfectly, btw, with Domino. Hell, they had a perfect fucking in house example with Rogue One.

When virtue signaling takes priority, things always go to utter shit. Yeah political movies exist and politics inevitably creeps into a lot of artistic works, but it should NEVER take over priority for making a decent piece of entertainment. And make no mistake, these people behind shit like TLJ are not about the entertainment, they are about pushing an agenda even if it wrecks the whole fucking franchise (because destroying something "white men made" is still a win for them) to do it. Declaring Lando "pansexual" when there has been literally no sexuality in any SW movie and it has zero fuck all to do with the story is the kind of thinking that got TLJ so far off course. Until they correct that, I will enjoy watching the Mouse lose money for a change.

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The casting notice describes Caro as "captivating naturalness and ease to her manner," and calls her a"leader and problem solver, smart with a great sense of humor and a strong will. All this comes to her effortlessly."

Yeah, they are aiming to double down it seems. "No..If we include more women who are perfect in every way then fans will LEARN to love it! I WILL FUCK THEM UNTIL THEY LOVE ME!"

These people are truly delusional. I was just talking in the GG thread about a historian consultant that works for the BBC who believes that men who fought in WW2 were having a "great time", going on "adventures", while women were 'forced' to go to dances and social functions that oppressed them. When you've broken with reality that much, a little thing like a billion dollar IP flopping is not even going to make you blink.

They still can't learn the lesson of the originals. Han Solo was a charismatic, smooth man--but he also was vain, and had difficulty trusting people and was a greedy asshole at times, he didn't think twice about putting himself first until he began to grow. Leia was a strong, intelligent woman--she could also be a petty bitch who turned out to be amazingly awkward when forced into personal relationships, she had ease inspiring loyalty but difficulty building personal bonds because of it. Luke was an idealistic, compassionate, brave man with a strong will--who could also be a naive, foolish idiot due to his idealism, he also tended to whine and be ridiculous when the world turned out to not adhere to his ivory tower views.

Just compare Luke meeting Han Solo for the first time vs Luke meeting Rey...."This isn't like dusting crops boy!" (Sit down and shut the fuck up because you're dumb) vs "Wowzer, you fixed this problem I couldn't figure out after decades with the ship?!? You're amazing Rey!"

Phazael said:

Yeah the flawless Mary Sue nature of these new Kk characters is what bugs me the most. Even Lucas knew to put a little bit of grey on his guys, at least until the prequels.

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Ya, let me stop you right there. I know people love to shit on the prequels every chance they get, but at least be honest about it. This is not a valid complaint. Those movies are all about ambiguous, ulterior motives, and characters with multiple layers.

I mean, from a certain point of view (heh), Palpatine was right. You could actually side with him. The Jedi had become dogmatic, and narrow-minded. They were actively hiding things from Anakin, and going against their own rules.

Dooku was a Jedi that became disillusioned after Qui-Gon died. I actually felt bad for the dude when he was betrayed by Palpatine, and killed by Anakin.

The Jedi code is what created Vader. They didn't allow him to go save his mother, which resulted in her death. They didn't allow him to marry, which resulted in him hiding his relationship, which ultimately led to her death. For being the "good guys", the Jedi brought about their own demise. If that's not grey, I don't know what is.

Screamfeeder said:

The first time Luke met Rey he threw her "gift" off a cliff, gave her a snarky look and walked off before spending a good amount of time ignoring her and throwing shade her way...

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Meant Rey meeting Han Solo, not Luke.

Luke's comparison to meeting Rey would be Yoda meeting Luke. Yoda and Luke are analogous, both kind of fuck with their supposed pupils. But then Yoda reveals he's actually very wise and not at all ridiculous, and was testing Luke. He also shows how Luke fucked up because he's an impatient asshole (Another mistake Luke made), but decides to train him because he's convinced by an old friend there might be something in Luke. He then begins training Luke, but Luke even fails at that. In the end, all Yoda can do is impart a few wise lessons to Luke which help him in critical moments.

Meanwhile, in Rey/Luke, Luke doesn't end up revealing he's wise and showing how Rey is an impatient kid/asshole still and has a lot to learn. No, instead, LUKE is the bitter asshole who is so pessimistic he can't do shit, and Rey decides to just train herself and defeats Luke and shows how she didn't need him anyway. And in the end, its Rey's influence on Luke which helps Luke stop being shitty, not the other way around.

As said, the writer was pretty obtuse with making everything work in the opposite way of what's expected. That might have worked in a stand alone movie or if this was the second film and the only other thing we know about the universe is the first film. But doing this in a universe with 16+ hours of lore under its belt, and with characters that are already firmly established is like oil with water.

Screamfeeder said:

The first time Luke met Rey he threw her "gift" off a cliff, gave her a snarky look and walked off before spending a good amount of time ignoring her and throwing shade her way...

Or take Kylos "your parents were gutter trash" speech to Rey. She had this idealized version of her Grand Royal Amazing parents and nope. You're fucking trash and your parents were trash.

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So her character flaw is that one guy (Luke) didn't like her immediately and she had to earn his attention? Literally everyone else excluding bad guys who hate everyone (Snoke etc) liked her right away, including Kylo Ren.

Screamfeeder said:

No. Her biggest character flaw is being an annoyingly idealistic redneck (Luke...).

Han didn't like her when they first meet and neither did Chewie. He doubted she could be a pilot, "You?" and he was ready to dump her and Finn of right away after he stole back his ship. It wasn't until Finn mentioned Luke that Han even gave either of them the time of day.

Kylo didn't like Rey right away either. She was just "The Girl I have heard so much about." and proceeds to begin interrogating her (via shoulder lightsaber pose) about the droid he wants.

Do you guys actually watch these movies?

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It's literally the same scene they all become interested in her.

Screamfeeder said:

Oh boy.

Luke doesn't have to reveal he is wise to Rey. She already knows he is The Great Teacher. Luke is a Legend to Rey. Pretty safe to assume she already thinks/knows he is wise. She knows him immediately. Luke see's Yoda as some dopey swamp alien. He isn't star struck like Rey. That is why Rey is so struck by Luke being a prick and realizing he might not have all the answers.

Second off, Yoda doesn't want to train Luke and explicitly says so, in much the same way Luke does with Rey, just using different words. Yoda is also pessimistic because of what he already went through with Anakin and doesn't want to fumblefuck his way around with Luke only to get another Vader. Then Luke leaves his training early and Yoda literally writes him off for dead.

"No, there is another."

You have a scene of Luke fucking with Rey (while training her mind you) where he smacks her with a reed. She cracks a joke but she gets the lesson and proceeds to reach out just like Luke is training her to do. You don't have the rock moving, backpack Yoda montage, but the sentiment is all still there.

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Both Rey and Luke go to their planets expecting to find something other than what they did. Luke expected a great warrior, and instead got a wise teacher. Rey expected a wise teacher and instead got a pessimistic asshole.

Yoda was NOT pessimistic by nature. He specifically gave Luke a test, specifically tested him by concealing who he was in order to see how Luke, as a person was. Luke FAILED. He was impatient and angry. "I can not teach him, the boy has no patience...Much anger in him, like his father." Yoda had specific reasons not to teach Luke based on Luke's flaws as a character. Flaws we see corrected in the third film, when Luke returns and APOLOGIZES to Yoda for being impatient and leaving. Despite this though, Yoda chooses to teach Luke. He was wise enough to NOT hold the sins of his own past AGAINST Luke, to not hold the sins of the father against the son. This scene shows us that Yoda is, indeed, wise, even if he is skeptical and it's Luke's nature that is the problem. It gives us a character flaw Luke has to correct, a character flaw that will soon after see Luke fail two additional training steps and the loss of his hand.

This entire sequence shows us Luke has A LOT of growing to do (Among other things)--even though he grew a lot during the training. Yoda put him on the right path. Yoda confronted Luke's inadequacies and showed him what needed to be changed. Luke realized it was profound enough to return to Yoda for more training and actually apologize for the flaws he used to hold (He literally says he's sorry.)


Meanwhile....With Rey.

Luke is not pessimistic because of a flaw in Rey--he doesn't even give Rey the chance to show any flaws. He tossed away the saber and immediately shows he's just a dick. Then, he agrees to teach Rey but stops..why? Due to some character flaw Rey might be able to fix? Nope....Because Rey is TOO POWERFUL, and it frightens him. (Name me the flaw in Rey that turns Luke into an asshole and stops him training her, go on.) Luke is small minded, stupid and nihilistic, his good traits never overcome his bad traits, at all. (Oh and there are allusions to him being scared because Rey might be able to be comfortable with the light and dark, and that frightens his old, conservative minded view that is all wrong, as you said.)

In these scenes we see Rey is actually way more progressive (Force wise) than Luke, as strong or stronger. She never fails in her training, and is able to train without him. In addition, her leaving is not a failure of her personality, but is a wise choice, while Luke's choice to stay is the unwise one. (Contrast this with how Luke left.) Every flaw of character in the scene stems from Luke, not Rey--Luke is the asshole.

Its a total 180 from Yoda in every single way.

Third off, it wasn't Rey that stopped Luke being shitty. It was Kylo and Luke's own guilt and history with his father and Han. Rey just reminded him of that.

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So Rey was the reason Luke stopped being shitty. Right? Her example, her ability to face her past prompted Luke to face his own. Yeah, that scans--because it goes with the whole scene. Rey was more the teacher than Luke was. Luke was some old "get off my lawn" asshole stuck in the past, Rey is the future. And the progressive Jedi future has NOTHING to gain from the past....as you admit.

No it isn't. The entire point is that Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vader and every Sith and Jedi are and were wrong about The Force. They talk about balance all the time while trying to murder/defeat the other side. That is why Luke is literally The Last Jedi.

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Yep, those old unwise assholes. Good thing Rey didn't let their myopic, stupid views corrupt her enlightenment. Also, the "oil and water" comment was about how the audience would feel about this. It amazes me even describing this you don't see it.

We get it Scream, we do. Trust me, every person in that theater gets the really cool little subversive theme of how all the old people were wrong about what was wise. Most people just thought it was stupid because Jed is who have pondered for thousands of years, some of them living several lifetimes focusing on the philosophy of morality and right and wrong, they all had nothing to offer the new, progressive, amazing Jedi.