The Dallas Cowboys Memorial (2015 Off-Season) Thread

Skinner

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They can no more force them to take a lie detector then hand over their phones. Plus a lie detector is far from 100% accurate. If you read some of the report, eventually the Patriots stopped allowing the investigators to talk to the two main figures, so not even the NFL was willing to put consequences on the line to make them talk. My guess is the organization really didn't think there was an issue at first and then after a while they thought there might be so they pulled access. But that just goes to show the limited power/authority the investigators had.
Read it. Patriots pulled access because Wells ran something like 4 separate interrogations on one of the guys and wanted to do a 5th as a followup, causing the Patriots lawyers to eventually step in as they felt it was excessive at that point. I wasn't aware that lie detectors were fully bullshit though.
 

Nothar

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The most hilarious aspect of this whole thing were all the idiot Pat fans who tried to claim the weather was responsible for the deflated balls. And then claiming that the Pats would be owed an apology by the league and their accusers because no cheating occurred. Listening to number 1 Pats homer Bill Simmons from ESPN/Grantland talk about how innocent the Pats surely were when all this came out was ridiculous. I am sure he will not own up to being completely wrong like all the other Pat fans though. I am sure they will continue to try to put out some narrative of how Brady is really innocent and still had no knowledge of the deflated balls, which given these new findings is completely impossible, but Pats fans just can't seem to bring themselves to say "ok my team cheated, that sucks, I am disappointed in them". No, they have to either try to make excuses or try to turn the debate around by claiming that everyone cheats so it is no big deal. It would be nice to see one Pats fan own up to both thier coach and quarterback being proven cheaters, but i would have better luck waiting for pigs to fly.
 

Gilgamel

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Read it. Patriots pulled access because Wells ran something like 4 separate interrogations on one of the guys and wanted to do a 5th as a followup, causing the Patriots lawyers to eventually step in as they felt it was excessive at that point. I wasn't aware that lie detectors were fully bullshit though.
That's already been disputed. He had 3 meetings in the first 48 hours with the NFL security guys. Then the NFL opened a real investigation, Wells had one meeting with him, it became clear he was implicated, and the Patriots would not allow him to meet anymore, going so far as to not even tell him the investigators wanted a followup interview. From the time the phone records were turned over on the 21st he only spoke with the investigation team one time and the team put a stop to it after that.
 

Ambiturner

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The fact that Kraft was demanding that the league apologize makes me think he was over compensating.

Saying the league should have to apologize just for investigating alleged cheating is insane
 

MAXPOWERS_sl

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The same people who are in the cops thread bitching about police not raking each other over the coals when one fucks up are the same people defending Brady's "honor". It makes me chuckle.
 

Xevy

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Haha, the texts are the best thing to come out of this by far. Like, I didn't care that much about them cheating in some minor way, I'm sure they were and probably are, as many teams probably are, but hoooo-boy are these texts worth it.

"Fuck Tom". That's what I'm going to change my email signature to.
 

Skinner

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Saying the league should have to apologize just for investigating alleged cheating is insane
Didn't he say if they couldn't prove it that they should apologize? I don't recall him ever saying they should apologize just for investigating.

The most hilarious aspect of this whole thing were all the idiot Pat fans who tried to claim the weather was responsible for the deflated balls. And then claiming that the Pats would be owed an apology by the league and their accusers because no cheating occurred. Listening to number 1 Pats homer Bill Simmons from ESPN/Grantland talk about how innocent the Pats surely were when all this came out was ridiculous. I am sure he will not own up to being completely wrong like all the other Pat fans though. I am sure they will continue to try to put out some narrative of how Brady is really innocent and still had no knowledge of the deflated balls, which given these new findings is completely impossible, but Pats fans just can't seem to bring themselves to say "ok my team cheated, that sucks, I am disappointed in them". No, they have to either try to make excuses or try to turn the debate around by claiming that everyone cheats so it is no big deal. It would be nice to see one Pats fan own up to both thier coach and quarterback being proven cheaters, but i would have better luck waiting for pigs to fly.
I'm a non-homer/non-fanatical Pats fan. I already said I feel Brady cheated and despite believing that Deflategate is pathetic as far as cheating scandals go (I rank it slightly lower than PEDs), I said I expect him to be fined and possibly suspended for a game or two. Not only do I think that's an appropriate punishment (mostly for lying), but I'm pretty sure I'm one of the only ones (and one of the firsts) who believe he should be suspended and this board isn't exactly a Patriots friendly crowd. I'm a bit let down Brady did it as well as embarrassed that this entire sideshow played out the way it did. I don't believe for a second that Brady needed to do this for an advantage evidenced by his performance in the second half of the AFC game and his performance in the SB, but he still did it.

BB on the other hand filmed signals from the sidelines during a small portion of one single game, one season after the rule was changed that made filming from that specific location illegal. He didn't film walkthroughs, he didn't film practices, he didn't spy on anyone and what he did was legal one season before he was caught. If he moved the camera back several yards into the stands Spygate never happens. I paint everyone with the same brush so since he still broke the rules, he still cheated. I rank his offense lower than the Jets coach tripping an opposing player running down the sidelines and just above the Browns GM sending a txt.
 

Alex

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Didn't he say if they couldn't prove it that they should apologize? I don't recall him ever saying they should apologize just for investigating.



I'm a non-homer/non-fanatical Pats fan. I already said I feel Brady cheated and despite believing that Deflategate is pathetic as far as cheating scandals go (I rank it slightly lower than PEDs), I said I expect him to be fined and possibly suspended for a game or two. Not only do I think that's an appropriate punishment (mostly for lying), but I'm pretty sure I'm one of the only ones (and one of the firsts) who believe he should be suspended and this board isn't exactly a Patriots friendly crowd. I'm a bit let down Brady did it as well as embarrassed that this entire sideshow played out the way it did. I don't believe for a second that Brady needed to do this for an advantage evidenced by his performance in the second half of the AFC game and his performance in the SB, but he still did it.

BB on the other hand filmed signals from the sidelines during a small portion of one single game, one season after the rule was changed that made filming from that specific location illegal. He didn't film walkthroughs, he didn't film practices, he didn't spy on anyone and what he did was legal one season before he was caught. If he moved the camera back several yards into the stands Spygate never happens. I paint everyone with the same brush so since he still broke the rules, he still cheated. I rank his offense lower than the Jets coach tripping an opposing player running down the sidelines and just above the Browns GM sending a txt.
The new coach-tripping-a-player team is the Steelers sir.
 
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It's pretty simple. NFL says "Patriots, you do bad?" Patriots say no, we will fully cooperate. NFL asks Patriots to do stuff. Patriots, thinking they did nothing wrong, do said stuff. Patriots ask the two jokers for their phones because the NFL wants them, then stop short of forcing Brady to turn his over once they realize he was in on it. So now the Pats have said they're going to cooperate fully, but once they realize the reality of the situation they can't or it will become abundantly clear Brady and these two jokers are behind it, so they stop cooperating while still pretending from a PR perspective that they are. That's why Kraft is acting like they did everything right and they allowed the NFL to speak to these guys 4 times, but in reality Ted Wells group only had one meeting with "the Deflator" before the pats put a stop to that shit(first three were just with NFL security before they got this evidence) and Brady immediately stopped cooperating after one initial meeting once it became clear he was going to be implicated. Basically the Pats know what happened now and they only forced their employees to cooperate up until the moment they realized there was actually foul play.

If the Pats were really as butthurt about this as Kraft is pretending to be they would force Brady to turn his shit over as his employer, show he had no illicit communications regarding doctoring the football, and tell the league to go to hell. But they can't do that, because he did know, and as soon as that became clear they immediately shut down contact with the guilty parties through the NFL.
I get all that. I just think this whole thing is moronic and it's taking air and writing time from actual interesting stuff like the nab and mal playoffs.
 

jooka

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Hopefully the punishment rolls out soon. Finally the spectacle will be over.
whens the first pre season game? I imagine it will drag on till just before then


edit Or until some player/coach does something stupid
 

Vandyn

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Actually, what makes Tom look bad/guilty more than just not giving up the phone/cooperating is the evidence of the damage control he tried to do with Jastremski as soon as the story broke where there was no communications with him 6 months prior. The funny thing about all this is all Patriot fans have dismissed this as a non-issue (which it is) but yet the Patriots themselves have not treated it like that, from Brady doing a presser looking like a deer in the headlights to BB first saying he knows nothing about footballs to giving a science lesson on deflation the next day to Kraft going scorched earth on the whole league on even the notion of accusing them of anything. They all should of just laughed it off like the non issue it was.
 

uncognito

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We really need the cowboys to rent a love boat, or some player to step up and beat their wife on camera.

This stupid fake scandal is no fun.
 

Ambiturner

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Didn't he say if they couldn't prove it that they should apologize? I don't recall him ever saying they should apologize just for investigating.
That's really the same thing. It would make more sense if he wanted an apology from the Colts, but the NFL just did what it's supposed to.

If someone falsely accuses you of a crime and police investigate and eventually find you didn't do anything wrong, do you demand an apology from the police?
 

Vandyn

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Did you just make this up?
No

In investigating Brady, Wells said he was hindered by the quarterback's refusal to provide his own emails, texts or phone records. But using Jastremski's phone records, Wells detected an increase in the frequency of phone calls and texts between Brady and the equipment assistant shortly after suspicions of tampering went public.After not communicating via phone or text for six months, they spoke six times on the phone over the course of three days.

Wells report finds that New England Patriots probably deflated balls

Also on the bottom of page 103 of the report.
 
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No

In investigating Brady, Wells said he was hindered by the quarterback's refusal to provide his own emails, texts or phone records. But using Jastremski's phone records, Wells detected an increase in the frequency of phone calls and texts between Brady and the equipment assistant shortly after suspicions of tampering went public.After not communicating via phone or text for six months, they spoke six times on the phone over the course of three days.

Wells report finds that New England Patriots probably deflated balls

Also on the bottom of page 103 of the report.
Oh after not communicating via PHONE OR TEXT. I got it.

In the report there's clearly evidence they communicate b/c Jastremski is holding Bradys 50k ball.