The Elder Scrolls Online

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DMK_sl

shitlord
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The problem is people are saying 'It's probably worth x amount". Since when did we measure how much a game is worth in material items? The quality of MMO's since WoW have been so poor we have created a new way to measure how good it is. Instead of "The games great can't wait to play it" we began to rationalize liking something always speaking comparatively and yet when put into prospective I wouldn't pay $10,000 to play UO but that's around the value of entertainment UO brought me.

I really hope we stop 'comparatively speaking' when we talk about the quality of a game, because it's extremely inaccurate.
 
Blackwulf

Blackwulf

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GuardianX_sl said:
Honestly it seems fun but i mean no more fun than say GW2 or any other "MMO" on the market today.

Not that 15 a month is a hell of a lot to spend but it is a spending that doesn't need to happen really. They are going to have a cash shop, already known, and they are going to have a monthly sub requirement.

The game IS fun but I just don't know if I want to emotionally invest in another monthly sub game.
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Actually, Sage has confirmed that there is no cash shop planned. Just a service (probably web based) to change character names, etc. He says Firor suffered from an unfortunate choice of words when he mentioned a "cash shop" for "fluff" to that interviewer at Gamescom.

http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth...the-paul-sage/

Summary here:http://teso.junkiesnation.com/

Also, just a bit of devil's advocate without breaking any NDA:
Many people here are saying the game looks good and is fun. Several of them, however, think it's not worth a sub. Just ask yourself this: Is it fair to judge a game completely based off of an hour or two of play during a stress test. Even if it wasn't a stress test, should you judge any MMO completely based on the very beginnings of the game? Your character has barely begun to differentiate itself from other noobies. You've seen a tiny fraction of the world. You haven't experienced guild auctions, crafting, dungeons, or PVP.

I'm just saying that I think you would be wise to take what you saw in context, and keep an open mind. If you get a chance to play the game for a more extended time, do it.

I'm of the mindset that a sub fee is a good thing. I haven't played the more cash-grabby types of games, you know the ones where you have to drop some money to actually loot a chest, but I still play DDO, and even in that game, I've spent far more money than a sub.
 
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2002User

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Nothing really impressed me too much from the game other than they stayed true to Elder Scrolls in terms of world design, UI, sounds, etc. I will save my opinion for when I see RvR.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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DMK_sl said:
The problem is people are saying 'It's probably worth x amount". Since when did we measure how much a game is worth in material items?The quality of MMO's since WoW have been so poor we have created a new way to measure how good it is. Instead of "The games great can't wait to play it" we began to rationalize liking something always speaking comparatively and yet when put into prospective I wouldn't pay $10,000 to play UO but that's around the value of entertainment UO brought me.

I really hope we stop 'comparatively speaking' when we talk about the quality of a game, because it's extremely inaccurate.
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You pretty much already gave the answer. Did I feel like I got $100-400 out of this over the time invested? Was there a better way to spend my money? That will always be the question and if a game isn't worth what I spent on it, that is a very accurate knock on it's quality from my personal standpoint. What gave you the $10000 for UO is the question I have? Did you add up all your hours in a ledger at home and then apply your pay rate to it? Did you miss a couple parties with blow and prostitutes and just added past rates for both into a usage account? It would have been about two hours with the prostitute and IKNOWat least 1k in blow which equals? Did it cost you your job and it took you several months to get another and this was back wages you could have earned? Everything is based on comparison if there are two things to compare. It's what we do.

Guardian, great post and I agree. I don't do more than 3-4 months now and my wife hates MMOs so it does save me a lot. Your post does a much better job of showing why sub based games have not kept these rates lately. GW2 is also the best value in gaming if you actually enjoy it. I don't but it's the standard to try and emulate now.
 
D

DMK_sl

shitlord
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Blackwulf_sl said:
Actually, Sage has confirmed that there is no cash shop planned. Just a service (probably web based) to change character names, etc. He says Firor suffered from an unfortunate choice of words when he mentioned a "cash shop" for "fluff" to that interviewer at Gamescom.

http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth...the-paul-sage/

Summary here:http://teso.junkiesnation.com/

Also, just a bit of devil's advocate without breaking any NDA:
Many people here are saying the game looks good and is fun. Several of them, however, think it's not worth a sub. Just ask yourself this: Is it fair to judge a game completely based off of an hour or two of play during a stress test. Even if it wasn't a stress test, should you judge any MMO completely based on the very beginnings of the game? Your character has barely begun to differentiate itself from other noobies. You've seen a tiny fraction of the world. You haven't experienced guild auctions, crafting, dungeons, or PVP.

I'm just saying that I think you would be wise to take what you saw in context, and keep an open mind. If you get a chance to play the game for a more extended time, do it.

I'm of the mindset that a sub fee is a good thing. I haven't played the more cash-grabby types of games, you know the ones where you have to drop some money to actually loot a chest, but I still play DDO, and even in that game, I've spent far more money than a sub.
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You mean keep an open mind like you? Thanks for letting all of us know your wisdom. We had no idea that we can wait to form opinions.
 
D

DMK_sl

shitlord
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zzeris_sl said:
You pretty much already gave the answer. Did I feel like I got $100-400 out of this over the time invested? Was there a better way to spend my money? That will always be the question and if a game isn't worth what I spent on it, that is a very accurate knock on it's quality from my personal standpoint. What gave you the $10000 for UO is the question I have? Did you add up all your hours in a ledger at home and then apply your pay rate to it? Did you miss a couple parties with blow and prostitutes and just added past rates for both into a usage account? It would have been about two hours with the prostitute and IKNOWat least 1k in blow which equals? Did it cost you your job and it took you several months to get another and this was back wages you could have earned? Everything is based on comparison if there are two things to compare. It's what we do.

Guardian, great post and I agree. I don't do more than 3-4 months now and my wife hates MMOs so it does save me a lot. Your post does a much better job of showing why sub based games have not kept these rates lately. GW2 is also the best value in gaming if you actually enjoy it. I don't but it's the standard to try and emulate now.
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Yes. Humans compare. We usually compare things within the same genre. If I asked you to compare a favourite game to a favourite movie or playing your favourite sports. All of these are forms of entertainment and by your logic can be compared and give accurate gauges of quaility. If we measured every game by how many hours we played it. There would barely be a game on the market that wasn't consider 'decent'. People have began to use it more and more when describing how good an MMO is. Because MMO's have been fucken terrible for years now. If we used your logic Bioshock Infinite would be a shitty game. 7 hours to complete. Fuck I played Swtor for longer then that. Are you going to sit there and tell me SWTOR is a better game then Infinite? No you aren't. Yet people continuously try to say well in other forms of entertainment I pay 30 dollars for 2 hours and I played this game for 10 hours and it cost me 40 so it's great!

Measuring games by the length of time you played is simply wrong. It's no measure at all. It's people trying to rationalize something they know isn't very good.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Opinions from SA.

This is how I feel almost word for word. It's like buying an old Corolla with a body kit on it. It looks like that sports car you used to own, same trim and headlights and even the interior is upgraded. But when you get the behind the wheel and actually drive... it's still a Corolla. That's how I felt within minutes of starting this game: that it was generic fantasy MMO #47 with a Skyrim body kit on it. The compass was the same, the names and locations were the same, the combat was designed to LOOK the same, but everything felt like that same old routine I've been through a hundred times with a hundred other MMOs.

I wasn't playing "The Elder Scrolls" online... I was playing "The Elder Scrolls Online". And that's a huge distinction to make. I know that most people have been able to discern that it won't be the TES experience they initially held out hope for and the developers have, for their part, pointed out a lot of the areas where it won't line up with people's expectations of a TES game. But it feels like it's trying to make its nut on the initial "oh my god i loved skyrim!!!" cash in and hope that people are fooled long enough to break even on the development costs.

Beyond all the let downs, the game ran pretty damn smooth on my system that couldn't even run The Witcher 2 properly and I didn't really experience any significant lag or stutters when I was surrounded by dozens of other beige people in burlap sacks hitting wolves and talking to whichever npc had the quest arrow on his head. So at least it'll probably be a smooth running disappointment.
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After playing an hour or so of the stress test I gave up waiting for it to get good. It looks like elder scrolls but feels like just another MMO;

-Spells and Attacks (including basic melee and bow attacks) will just auto-aim UNLESS you use dodge. Even standing behind the melee attacking NPCs I would still take damage from their swings that were landing no where near me.

-There was almost nothing to interact with. I know it's maybe not a big thing for many people but it was always fun in ES game to just collect a lot of junk to make useless art with or just roll cheese wheels down a hill.

-I was bored the entire time I was playing. I know you start in a kinda dull lifeless hellhole prison but even that was just very boring and a series of corridors with a few enemies as you follow NPCs around listening to them talk. I didn't care at all about anything they were saying unlike Skyrim or Morrowind.

Maybe I just didn't get to see enough in the time I played or there is still more to change/show in the starter area but from the stress test I can't see myself spending the money on this. On an up note however I hardly experienced any crashes or lag so atleast they know what they are doing server wise at the moment.
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Ps. Blackwulf is Matt Firor. (If people don't know by now. And hey Matt, you are the biggest fuck up in this industry.)
 
Utnayan

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/\/\. You are not a good troll

Here is more.

I logged out after about 35 minutes of playing because it was so staggeringly uninteresting. I don't even feel like finishing the stress test any further because it's so goddamn vanilla and uninspired.
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F

Fuya_sl

shitlord
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I don't mind paying for a 15 dollar sub but asking 60 for the game and then paying for a sub is a bit much for today's standard. I say this because some people tend to forget our choice of gaming today is much broader than it was 15, or even 10, years ago. Back then we might have received one, two if we were lucky, MMORPGs a year not giving us much of a choice on what to play. Add the fact that high speed internet wasn't a norm along with high cost of server hardware and you have the box purchase along with a sub as being something that had to be done. With today's tech and internet people are running home emu servers that can maintain hundreds of people playing at once with little more than donation money to keep it going.

Companies today have to convince me that paying 60 along with a sub is worth more than buying five indie games. My choice of gaming is so much wider today that staying with the old model will just end up in failure. I don't want F2P unless it's done right like Trion did with Rift, but I also don't want the entry to a sub based game to be 60 dollars even if the first month is free. What MMO companies could do is have the game free to download and then have the sub be the entry fee to play. You are already limited to be online at all times anyway. That I can stand behind because it's like you spent 15 dollars on the game which is the going price for an indie game that would probably give you the same amount of enjoyment if you didn't like the 60 dollar sub based game. It's never a guarantee you will ever like any of the games you purchase, but I can guarantee that you won't feel fucked when the 15 dollar game wasn't to your liking with no way of reselling it.

Today I'm so used to Steam sales, indie gaming, and IOS/Google Play prices that rarely do I pay the same old 60 dollar price for a game and that is because I have so many choices on how I pay for gaming.
 
Blackwulf

Blackwulf

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DMK_sl said:
You mean keep an open mind like you? Thanks for letting all of us know your wisdom. We had no idea that we can wait to form opinions.
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Yet we all need your wisdom to tell us over and over and fucking over that recent MMO's are bad? Makes sense.

Utnayan_sl said:
Opinions from SA.





Ps. Blackwulf is Matt Firor. (If people don't know by now. And hey Matt, you are the biggest fuck up in this industry.)
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Utnayan_sl said:
/\/\. You are not a good troll

Here is more.
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First - it would be cool to have Matt Firor's job, and probably his cash. I mean he's in charge of a 300+ employee studio working on a fucking sweet IP, but unfortunately that's not me. Cute, though.

Second - OMG - Utnayan found 3 reviews from jaded old MMO players that weren't completely positive! And he cross posted them here from the Something Awful forums. Like we can't read that shit over there for ourselves? How about I go find oh.. 30 or so good impressions posts from around the web? It would be easy, cause there are hundreds. But then I'd be a shill, right? Who are you shilling for? Blizzard?

Seriously, anyone who would make a judgement and log out after 35 minutes is a full blown retard who doesn't need to be listened to. Clearly not a real MMO or ES fan. Who gives a fuck what they think?
 
zzeris

zzeris

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DMK,

Good points and I agree with you. I'm not saying that MMOs are awesome entertainment because they give me more for my money. I'm sorry it sounded that way. I enjoy a good book, movie, and football game immensely and some have been far more enjoyable than many of my MMO experiences. At the same time, MMOs offer an entertainment that is different than these that I really enjoy. A bad book may be put down in an hour. A poor football game by halftime or less. I do give MMOs more time because of their inherent nature. Just like I knew before getting Bioshock that it would be short, I know that MMOs take time and have specific parameters for enjoyment. It takes time to get to 60, 70, etc. MMOs need a strong playerbase. It is a social game and each has their own hook you need to try.

That's why I'm not a sub fan at all. I don't see the extra value it gives right now. GW2 did similar without the money investment. You have to include the total price when you compare sub games. At $60 GW2 gave me this for 7 months. What is TESO, Wildstar, etc giving me extra in those 7 months that it will cost me $130? It's exactly like your earlier statement. Was SWTOR worth the time invested or should I have done something else? Time, money, and enjoyment are measured and sub games have been very lacking in that regard for a while.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Want to try this game but the sub requirement means I'll wait for the inevitable switch to F2P. The money isn't an issue, it's the time. I refuse to pay for subs because work and rl keep me so busy that logging into any game is a rare luxury. When I do have the time I don't want to be subliminally forced to play a game just because I'm paying a sub.

My mindset has changed in the last couple of years and I love the freedom of choice that F2P games provide, especially for people like me that have so little recreation time to spend. Sub requirements just build resentment and turn me towards other games.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Blackwulf_sl said:
Yet we all need your wisdom to tell us over and over and fucking over that recent MMO's are bad? Makes sense.





First - it would be cool to have Matt Firor's job, and probably his cash. I mean he's in charge of a 300+ employee studio working on a fucking sweet IP, but unfortunately that's not me. Cute, though.
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Tell us how much money you have Matt... Please? How does it feel knowing you lie for a living. You also don't have a lot of money. You should tell everyone how much you blew in your consulting business which went belly up in a year because you are pretty much a wart that fell off Raph Kosters face after a miss blow during a hot polka session.

Second - OMG - Utnayan found 3 reviews from jaded old MMO players that weren't completely positive! And he cross posted them here from the Something Awful forums. Like we can't read that shit over there for ourselves? How about I go find oh.. 30 or so good impressions posts from around the web? It would be easy, cause there are hundreds. But then I'd be a shill, right? Who are you shilling for? Blizzard?
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Nope. Right now I'm shilling final fantasy 14. And logitechG105 keyboards after I spit up Gatorade on my old one after reading one of your posts. But as said, this isn't an mmorpg. It's a single player game with multiplayer components, which you yourself said, Matthew. With a tacked on sub to regain dev costs you blew for six years until you roll out the planned free to play conversion in six months post April when the game launches.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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Utnayan if you have evidence that Blackwulf is someone in the industry then post it. Either way lay off with these creepy personal attacks.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Tuco_sl said:
Utnayan if you have evidence that Blackwulf is someone in the industry then post it. Either way lay off with these creepy personal attacks.
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Track the IP. There is your evidence. Creepy personal attacks my ass. Last I checked, calling a spade a spade is what this forum was founded on. Lets get back to that before it loses credibility. Capiche?
 
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