The Elder Scrolls Online

Utnayan · Jul 2, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
Since you obviously are not playing it, why do you even care? Is it going to cause you to have a shitty day if you find out some people are still having fun playing this game?

It's a discussion forum. I would akin mine, and everyone else's disdain for shills at almost an all time peak right now. Across all forums. Replies like yours don't help, because 1) The history of all the awesome posters here who call a spade a spade. 2) This isn't the IGN Vault forums or Reddit. One doesn't have to like the game or enjoy it to post in the thread, in fact here, some can post about this monstrosity just to post about it and enjoy the fail wagon. Why do people do this? Because had the developers been transparent about the game to begin with (And there are millions of examples we have talked about in the last year and a half where they most obviously weren't) there wouldn't be a want to push their face down in the dirt. Too bad we won't see the real repercussions of what this abortion of a game did to Zenimax's financials.

Now, I will give Rescorla credit. He stuck around and started posting in other areas of the forum when I thought he would vanish. So that's admirable. With that said, it is still hard for me to tell if he is trolling this thread and laughing every step of the way at the reactions, or genuinely posting (in this thread). His other posts elsewhere seem to be more rational when it comes to the obvious within those other games. For this one for some reason, if it isn't trolling, a large hard on to defend it and say things are not bad for Zenimax Online right now when obviously they are.

* IF * the console version gets released, and in the time frame they think they will have success in, withthe line up preparing to launch in the same window... Well, that would be a very bad financial move for ZO/Zenimax. Sony is the one that pushed them for a release because they wanted another highly hyped title in the mix to help sell systems. Now? Not so much. One wonders the amount of money Sony invested into ZO to make sure a console version was planned, and if they pulled that funding, if Zenimax Media will continue down the console road when it clearly is a very bad investment decision on their part.

Course, Hines might actually be looking at it like ES Series games at this point. Which sell millions of copies on the console compared to PC counterparts without really looking at the fact that, the game just flat out sucks and won't have the same results.

spronk · Jul 2, 2014

Tuco_sl said:
I really enjoyed AoC's world, R rated atmosphere, classes and open world PvP.

One thing they did really well is have only one zone to get the last 8 or so levels in. And that zone had a lot of chokepoints. This forced a lot of PvP that you'd never see if there wasn't so much resource contention.

i got a free copy of aoc + no sub because i volunteered for their guide program (I forgot what they called it but it was basically EQ guides), they had orientation programs and all that shit, was pretty exciting pre launch. after finally meeting up with king conan in his city and realizing the rest of the game was completely unfinished i just started trolling every person who asked for help - we couldn't really do much, just port to a person, port them to a few locations, chat with them, open up tickets - and within a week my account got suspended for porting everyone who asked for help to the giant worm creature things that insta killed people

tortage was pretty awesome though as was doing the bridge horse kicks, plus titties on everything was the bomb. i was in goon squad at the time and i remember huge issues around the whole farming in the PVP zone (just dozens of people farming like 8 crocodiles? for days) and the actual siege stuff not working or crashing servers

Rescorla_sl · Jul 2, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
It's a discussion forum. I would akin mine, and everyone else's disdain for shills at almost an all time peak right now. Across all forums.

You may be correct. However, I would hope the majority of posters on this forum are mature enough to have more disdain towards posters who hate a game so much that they shit up threads and even go to the extreme of fabricating lies to try and convince others to not play the game.

If the purpose of this forum is to discuss MMOs, the haters are going to have to accept the reality that there will be some people having fun in a game they hate. Instead of attacking them, their time would be better spent trying to figure out why other people having fun bothers them so much.

Utnayan · Jul 2, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
You may be correct. However, I would hope the majority of posters on this forum are mature enough to have more disdain towards posters who hate a game so much that they shit up threads and even go to the extreme of fabricating lies to try and convince others to not play the game.

If the purpose of this forum is to discuss MMOs, the haters are going to have to accept the reality that there will be some people having fun in a game they hate. Instead of attacking them, their time would be better spent trying to figure out why other people having fun bothers them so much.

They aren't attacking posters for liking a game. They are attacking the game for being shitty, seeing you attack them because of it, they call you a shill because while they know you can have a subjective like for something they don't, there is also the difference between that and denying the sky is blue. Which could be true for you, it may be red, but then it would be painfully obvious that person viewing the sky as red has a physical defect with their eye ball or brain and are color blind. Which then twists their subjective opinion quite considerably.

xmod2_sl · Jul 2, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
Instead of attacking them, their time would be better spent trying to figure out why other people having fun bothers them so much.

Half the fun of this forum is attacking people and it's only enjoyable to attack people who react. Thankfully, the 3 odd people who like the game tend to become famous in each thread for their inability to not react at every jab.

My experience playing ESO was that it felt like a weaker Elder Scroll game, and made me wonder why I didn't just play Skyrim instead.

Rescorla_sl · Jul 2, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
They aren't attacking posters for liking a game. They are attacking the game for being shitty, seeing you attack them because of it, they call you a shill because while they know you can have a subjective like for something they don't, there is also the difference between that and denying the sky is blue. Which could be true for you, it may be red, but then it would be painfully obvious that person viewing the sky as red has a physical defect with their eye ball or brain and are color blind. Which then twists their subjective opinion quite considerably.

Incorrect. There have been plenty of legit criticisms of the game posted by the non-haters that neither I or Blackwulf have disagreed with. Tuco's list of the problems with the PVP design being a good example. I myself, along with others, have criticized the design decision for not having nameplates, the Veteran Rank system, no auction house and gutting the addon API.

That's the difference between a real discussion between reasonable adults and an irrational rant from the haters. When I "defend" ZOS, it always against the latter. The thing is, from my perspective, I'm not defending ZOS but instead attacking the irrational haters. As long as the mods let them spew out the hate, I don't see anything wrong with countering it.

Nija · Jul 2, 2014

I'll give them this. I thought about it a bit more, and it's possible that it could have sold 1 or 2 million, but I doubt more than that.

It was mentioned last page that they did announce an amount of people who signed up for beta. I'm not going to look up the actual press release, but lets assume that number was 5 million.

5 million people showed interest in the game - enough to give them their email address and receive email blasts from them.

Now, imagine the game releases. You just put out a 5 million people are interested number. Would the next thing you release be "of those 5 million people who were interested, 20% actually paid for it!" - What about 50%? I don't think they'd say anything unless it's damn near 100% of those people.

So if it was 5 million people that signed up for beta, they're nowhere near selling that many digital/box copies of the game at the moment.

Abefroman · Jul 2, 2014

Utnayan · Jul 2, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
As long as the mods let them spew out the hate, I don't see anything wrong with countering it.

Or for sure. Go nuts. They will counter you just the same. The thread, for me anyway, is more entertaining than the game could ever have been.

Utnayan · Jul 2, 2014

Nija_sl said:
I'll give them this. I thought about it a bit more, and it's possible that it could have sold 1 or 2 million, but I doubt more than that.

It was mentioned last page that they did announce an amount of people who signed up for beta. I'm not going to look up the actual press release, but lets assume that number was 5 million.

5 million people showed interest in the game - enough to give them their email address and receive email blasts from them.

Now, imagine the game releases. You just put out a 5 million people are interested number. Would the next thing you release be "of those 5 million people who were interested, 20% actually paid for it!" - What about 50%? I don't think they'd say anything unless it's damn near 100% of those people.

So if it was 5 million people that signed up for beta, they're nowhere near selling that many digital/box copies of the game at the moment.

If they hit over a million we would know about it. It's a benchmark that is standard in the industry. And they would be all over it like a fly on shit to promote it within a certain window which would show prospective buyers it is popular among their peers.

Erronius · Jul 2, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
I would hope the majority of posters on this forum are mature enough to have more disdain towards posters who hate a game so much that they shit up threads andeven go to the extreme of fabricating liesto try and convince others to not play the game.

I mean you're going to have to forgive me here since I am just coming back to the thread, but what lies are people fabricating about TESO to convince others not to play the game?

Draegan_sl · Jul 2, 2014

Erronius_sl said:
Well I don't go into the Wildstar thread because Draegan shilled it so hard early on

I did not shill that game early on at all. I've always said the game is WOW++. I went from it being a decent game to it being shitty generic game. I never really went all out for it at all.

Rescorla_sl · Jul 2, 2014

Erronius_sl said:
I mean you're going to have to forgive me here since I am just coming back to the thread, but what lies are people fabricating about TESO to convince others not to play the game?

I'm in between meetings on my iPhone so you will have to wait until I get home and can provide the details on my desktop. There is a reason Utnayan doesn't like me. If you don't want to wait, since you're a mod you can check out my early posting history.

Rescorla_sl · Jul 2, 2014

Draegan_sl said:
I did not shill that game early on at all. I've always said the game is WOW++. I went from it being a decent game to it being shitty generic game. I never really went all out for it at all.

I thought you were having fun with your Esper. Have you soured on Wildstar already?

Abefroman · Jul 2, 2014

@Erronius
TLDR
Inconsistencies in Ut saying he was in closed beta pointed out by Rescorla making everyone come to the conclusion UT was getting info from closed beta testers and not actually in the beta. Major points brought up by UT actually were correct and often combated by trying to derail the argument with "UT isn't really in beta!" Examples of some points are, combat delay, weapon switching delay, Hero engine was used in final product even though Zenimax swore otherwise. Things UT was wrong about was content past a certain level no being finished.

Thread consisted of people pointing out something not working and fanboys defending it calling anyone who didn't like something a hater which then turned into a UT derail to deflect from the legitimate complaint.

Utnayan · Jul 2, 2014

Abefroman_sl said:
@Erronius
TLDR
Inconsistencies in Ut saying he was in closed beta pointed out by Rescorla making everyone come to the conclusion UT was getting info from closed beta testers and not actually in the beta. Major points brought up by UT actually were correct and often combated by trying to derail the argument with "UT isn't really in beta!" Examples of some points are, combat delay, weapon switching delay, Hero engine was used in final product even though Zenimax swore otherwise. Things UT was wrong about was content past a certain level no being finished.

Thread consisted of people pointing out something not working and fanboys defending it calling anyone who didn't like something a hater which then turned into a UT derail to deflect from the legitimate complaint.

Pretty much that in a nutshell. In the end, the major points were all right as usual. If I really cared I would go back and find specific bullet points but Abe pretty much nailed them all. Rescorla then said I was lying about all of that so people didn't buy the game. Because of a vendetta against Matt Firor and Paul Sage. Which yes, are horrible industry idiots in the MMORPG scope and damn near close to McQuaid levels of stupidity and level of work ethic - - but good lord...

And the only conclusion Rescorla had about me not being in closed beta was talking about UI mods not working. Guess what? They weren't. Since half of them were ripped out of the fucking game before launch. So I was right about that one too.

Oh well. Water under the bridge.

Draegan_sl · Jul 2, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
I thought you were having fun with your Esper. Have you soured on Wildstar already?

No, I've been distracted by League of Legends because my Brother in Law sucked me back in. Wildstar is a good fallback game imo, but the game is really good for a quest treadmill game, I just can't go full hardcore in those games anymore.

Rescorla_sl · Jul 2, 2014

Abefroman_sl said:
@Erronius
TLDR
Inconsistencies in Ut saying he was in closed beta pointed out by Rescorla making everyone come to the conclusion UT was getting info from closed beta testers and not actually in the beta. Major points brought up by UT actually were correct and often combated by trying to derail the argument with "UT isn't really in beta!" Examples of some points are, combat delay, weapon switching delay, Hero engine was used in final product even though Zenimax swore otherwise. Things UT was wrong about was content past a certain level no being finished.

Thread consisted of people pointing out something not working and fanboys defending it calling anyone who didn't like something a hater which then turned into a UT derail to deflect from the legitimate complaint.

Meeting ended 30 minutes early so let's give this a shot.

Abe Froman is close. I'll fill in the details and Tuco can confirm if I am depicting the sequence of events correctly.

First off, I started lurking on the old FOH boards back when FOH got the world first Lady Vox kill. I was a casual EQ1 player so I never had anything to contribute about endgame Eq1 so I just lurked.

Fast forward to January 2014 and I got an invite to be a closed beta tester for TESO. I was lurking here still at the time. Once I got into the closed beta, I started following this thread. At the time the only active poster claiming to be in the closed beta was Utnayan.

Utnayan was in full hate mode about TESO. After being in the closed beta myself for a couple of weeks, I knew several things he was claiming to be the "truth" were actually bald faced lies that he just fabricated to try and convince people to not play this game.

A couple weeks later the NDA was lifted for the media and enough evidence became available for the rational posters here to determine Utnayan was indeed lying about being in the closed beta.

At that point Utnayan went into full attack mode against me. He accused me of being a paid shill and even went so far as to claim I was an employee of ZOS. It was at that point I came to the conclusion he was batshit crazy. Every time he posted another rant about TESO, I would counter it.

It gets even better. Fast forward to the early access week before the game was launched. A lot of the skeptics about the game were actually having fun in the early stages of the game and the megaserver tech, which outright sucked during the open betas, was very stable. Utnayan then announced to everyone he had lost a bet with some unnamed friend and as a result of losing the bet he was forced to buy TESO. Suffice It to say that caused pretty much everyone on the board to ridicule him.

He then apped to join all of us in Tuco's guild. His application to join was rejected and the next day he was back to full hate mode towards the game.

I think that pretty much accurately documents how things played out.

Tuco · Jul 2, 2014

Utnayan has made up all kinds of crap, he'll make up stuff and whatever was confirmed by PTS testers he'd stick to and whatever PTS testers denounced he would drop.

But Rescorla and Utnayan make everything personal. You two need to focus on the game and not each other or leave the thread.

Utnayan · Jul 2, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
Meeting ended 30 minutes early so let's give this a shot.

Abe Froman is close. I'll fill in the details and Tuco can confirm if I am depicting the sequence of events correctly.

First off, I started lurking on the old FOH boards back when FOH got the world first Lady Vox kill. I was a casual EQ1 player so I never had anything to contribute about endgame Eq1 so I just lurked.

Fast forward to January 2014 and I got an invite to be a closed beta tester for TESO. I was lurking here still at the time. Once I got into the closed beta, I started following this thread. At the time the only active poster claiming to be in the closed beta was Utnayan.

Wrong. There were others here in closed beta as well.

Utnayan was in full hate mode about TESO.

More like what the fuck are they doing mode. As shows now in the final product.

After being in the closed beta myself for a couple of weeks, I knew several things he was claiming to be the "truth" were actually bald faced lies that he just fabricated to try and convince people to not play this game.

Things I claimed:

* Combat lag and UI unresponsiveness (True)
* Complete server instability during stress tests outside of closed beta (True)
* Brian Wheeler's PvP Team being 2 people 6 months into 2013. (True)
* Multitude of bugs and breaking phasing causing progression issues which were not being addressed (True)
* Mods not working. (True. They gutted the system. Which you never saw coming, yet I know it was happening)
* Rescrap and redesign of the game with content builds for the 17-50 game in 18 months from launch. True.
* Horrid itemization being ignored to try and get the game stable. True (Hey look a gold piece... on every mob)

A lot of the skeptics about the game were actually having fun in the early stages of the game and the megaserver tech, which outright sucked during the open betas, was very stable.

That's because it was a limited early access to those that purchased off the direct site and imperial editions. Once it opened up to full launch, you know as well as everyone here the servers completely imploded causing more bank bugs, phasing issues, crashes, and just about everything else that went unchecked a month into launch. Not even counting the security and exploits they were never able to address.

He then apped to join all of us in Tuco's guild. His application to join was rejected

True. They are a guild that doesn't like loud mouthed forum posters. No harm no foul and I agreed at the end it probably wasn't the best fit. I don't like to muzzle myself.

and the next day he was back to full hate mode towards the game.

False. I played for a few more days until the enormous amount of issues with the game were still transparent and not fixed from open and closed betas. Obviously they said they fixed all those issues a week before launch in the patch when they had the game go completely dark to protect box sales. After which,. yes, I had lost a bet. Friending you as the very first person upon entering the game should have tipped you off that you were being trolled. However, I was able to finally claim my refund, a long with a lot of others. So in a way I feel bad because I technically welched.

With that said, there are plenty of people that post here that did or still do work on this game. It will be interesting to see the post martum when it all becomes public knowledge, and we can revisit this thread.

Erronius: Paul Sage (Creative director for TESO) and Matt Firor make Brad McQuaid and Rich Vogel look like Ken Levine.

The Elder Scrolls Online

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