The Elder Scrolls Online

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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Utnayan_sl said:
And that's completely wrong. And meant to keep people on the carrot. "Game starts at this" is a great way to keep people attracted to the same borish content hoping they may like another segment of the game because it was gated on purpose to lengthen a subscription. And it is never as "Awesome" as they say it will be.

They are so screwed on this one that they lowered the bar to level 5 to get into RvR instead of 10 in closed beta. That is because they don't think they can even keep people subscribed passed the first month through mind numbingly boring 1-10 content to get to the RvR and need to ungate the content. Meaning, they are shitting their pants.

And you know as well as I do how boring post 20 content is currently. At least Kedwyn and Pyksel will agree with that.
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LOL I do get a laugh at how bizarre your leaps of logic take you. Did it ever cross your mind that the reason the entry level to get into Cyrodil was lowered to 5 is so players like yourself in the weekend beta test who only get to play for a couple of days can experience that aspect of the game sooner?

You also have no clue how good or bad post 20 content is but keep on trying.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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mkopec_sl said:
I think the game that came the closest to fully done was Rift. Its been a while, someone correct me if im wrong. But I remember that game was pretty much finished for what they had at release.
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I agree. I had some guildmates who were in the closed beta of Rift and were able to get their characters to max level before the game went live.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Rescorla_sl said:
LOL I do get a laugh at how bizarre your leaps of logic take you. Did it ever cross your mind that the reason the entry level to get into Cyrodil was lowered to 5 is so players like yourself in the weekend beta test who only get to play for a couple of days can experience that aspect of the game sooner?
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Do you realize it's a permanent change?
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Rescorla_sl said:
LOL I do get a laugh at how bizarre your leaps of logic take you. Did it ever cross your mind that the reason the entry level to get into Cyrodil was lowered to 5 is so players like yourself in the weekend beta test who only get to play for a couple of days can experience that aspect of the game sooner?
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Do you realize it's a permanent change?

NDA will come down when Early access begins. They are too scared to do it before hand. It will impede box sales. They are already dealing with the community damage from the last weekend beta.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Utnayan_sl said:
Do you realize it's a permanent change?

NDA will come down when Early access begins. They are too scared to do it before hand. It will impede box sales. They are already dealing with the community damage from the last weekend beta.
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If you are wrong will you self-ban yourself from this forum or at least promise to stop making ridiculous assertions pretending you know what is actually going on?
 
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Gecko_sl

shitlord
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Rescorla_sl said:
If you are wrong will you self-ban yourself from this forum or at least promise to stop making ridiculous assertions pretending you know what is actually going on?
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Why not just ignore Ut? Nobody here outside of trolls takes him seriously. There's a reason he was banned at FOH.

I'd ignore him, but when he's not into his faux super insider role, his comments and discussions are actually very good. It's a shame he can't tone down his rhetoric and just comment without being an authority on games and the people developing him. I guess he doesn't see how he comes across as a creepy stalker, especially when he's lecturing people who work at SOE about SOE....GO ASK SMED! REPRESENT!
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Gecko_sl said:
Why not just ignore Ut? Nobody here outside of trolls takes him seriously. There's a reason he was banned at FOH.

I'd ignore him, but when he's not into his faux super insider role, his comments and discussions are actually very good. It's a shame he can't tone down his rhetoric and just comment without being an authority on games and the people developing him. I guess he doesn't see how he comes across as a creepy stalker, especially when he's lecturing people who work at SOE about SOE....GO ASK SMED! REPRESENT!
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He does provide some entertainment watching him trying to wiggle out of the predicaments his fabrications put him in. Like I said earlier, I'm just a regular joe who got an invite into the closed beta. It doesn't matter to me whether anyone here plays the game or not. However when someone pretends they have inside info into the development process and blatantly lies about the game, I am going to have some fun with it.
 
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Grave_sl

shitlord
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So wait, lowering the PVP entry level is now part of some conspiracy to hide PVE content from players? As opposed to, I don't know, responding to feedback that people who really love Cyrodiil and want to level exclusively through PVP just wanted to go there faster? Not sure I get that.

Also, not really interested in getting into this whole argument, but there are people who have reached cap in closed beta so obviously that content is there and can be seen by those testers. Anyoneactuallyin closed beta should be able to get a feel for this content from the forums where people are actively discussing quests and encounters all the way up to cap whether they've put in the time to get to it personally or not. Not sure where the Age of Conan "no good content past 17" thing is coming from since just reading those discussions and strategies should say a lot about what is offered. I get being frustrated that the stress tests don't go further - then again, that's sort of the point of a stress. You need the masses hammering a small portion. Still, comparing it to Tortage is, frankly, ridiculous IMO. If it was that level of bad more closed beta testers would be leaking info without a care and we all know that.
 
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vazdeline_sl

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Can anyone give a good non-biased recap on what this game has to offer? Looking into something, and I am going into it with full realization that the MMO industry blows huge black dicks right now.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Grave_sl said:
So wait, lowering the PVP entry level is now part of some conspiracy to hide PVE content from players? As opposed to, I don't know, responding to feedback that people who really love Cyrodiil and want to level exclusively through PVP just wanted to go there faster? Not sure I get that.

Also, not really interested in getting into this whole argument, but there are people who have reached cap in closed beta so obviously that content is there and can be seen by those testers.Anyoneactuallyin closed beta should be able to get a feel for this content from the forums where people are actively discussing quests and encounters all the way up to capwhether they've put in the time to get to it personally or not. Not sure where the Age of Conan "no good content past 17" thing is coming from since just reading those discussions and strategies should say a lot about what is offered. I get being frustrated that the stress tests don't go further - then again, that's sort of the point of a stress. You need the masses hammering a small portion. Still, comparing it to Tortage is, frankly, ridiculous IMO. If it was that level of bad more closed beta testers would be leaking info without a care and we all know that.
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/incoming Utnayan asserting Grave is an employee of Zenimax in 3,2,1....
 
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Gecko_sl

shitlord
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Grave_sl said:
So wait, lowering the PVP entry level is now part of some conspiracy to hide PVE content from players? As opposed to, I don't know, responding to feedback that people who really love Cyrodiil and want to level exclusively through PVP just wanted to go there faster? Not sure I get that.

Also, not really interested in getting into this whole argument, but there are people who have reached cap in closed beta so obviously that content is there and can be seen by those testers. Anyoneactuallyin closed beta should be able to get a feel for this content from the forums where people are actively discussing quests and encounters all the way up to cap whether they've put in the time to get to it personally or not. Not sure where the Age of Conan "no good content past 17" thing is coming from since just reading those discussions and strategies should say a lot about what is offered. I get being frustrated that the stress tests don't go further - then again, that's sort of the point of a stress. You need the masses hammering a small portion. Still, comparing it to Tortage is, frankly, ridiculous IMO. If it was that level of bad more closed beta testers would be leaking info without a care and we all know that.
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Hey, Grave.. Good to see you posting again.

In relation to the conspiracy crap, nobody except Ut and a few Utnaughts are spouting that. Most people either like or hate the game based on the limited content. All of us agree the game was way too buggy last beta weekend, though.

I personally believe Z.O. is limiting closed beta testers and people playing, as well as NDA information, to try and entice people to actually buy the game at release to play it, instead of burning through all the content in beta weekends. It took the vast majority of SWTOR people less than two months to eat through a complete storyline, and I'm sure they see that.

The game is still a good two months out, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but it would be good to get more feedback from people about how the game is at later levels and how PVP/Endgame content will be.
 
rhinohelix

rhinohelix

Dental Dammer
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^^ I think this probably plays into it. Each faction was so story-driven that playing through more might indeed be hurting launch. Early access for imperial edition pre-orders starts in what? Like 6 weeks? I may not play much in the next couple of beta weekends because now that I am excited about it, its going to hurt more to give up the stuff I accumulate in the beta.

I will say that while I may be on the other side of Ut on this game, I generally like him this time around. Attacking Draegan, though, is far from the smartest thing I have seen anyone do today.

And thanks to Draegan for calling Blackwolf what I think he is, not a shill but a fanboy. Haven't we all unconditionally loved one of these games before? It's all good. You just have to know their biases when you read their posts.
 
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ThunderCougarFalconBird_sl

shitlord
547
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mkopec_sl said:
Here is the way I saw it playing the last beta...

Positives
Game looks good
Game runs like a champ on ok systems
Combat feels ok and is different
minimal UI, youre playing the game not a UI
Crafting is decent
OK skill system
a few public quest things go on, but I only saw it, not played it.

Negs
Quest based leveling, lots of fetch type hit 'e" quests and some multi staged quest too
Only 4 peeps in a group
Does not have that open world explore thing that TES always had
Lots of running around and a big ass world (They do have some fast travel points though and mounts)


But this is only what I saw from playing the game for like 20 or so hours over the weekend. Supposedly there is a huge PvP thing going like GW2 www but I never got to check it out. also the beta was only up to lv17 so who the fuck knows what happens next. Is there compelling group content? Is the shit finished? Is end game going to be focused on PvP only?

But Im buying it. Im a whore for the beginnings of a new mmo. It will probably get me a few months of play.
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I'll be buying it, too. I'm also a total MMO whore.

I agree with your list, I think its fair and accurate but I would add to the negatives:
* Retardedly easily simplicity and difficulty.
* Animations that would make puppies cry.
* Terrible, what the fuck were they thinking itemization.

I have yet to try the dungeons so I can't comment much on group-tuned combat. Also I thought many of the quests lore (which I actually read- weren't bad at all and certainly much better than your standard MMO faire. There were a few that had me rolling my eyes though.
 
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ThunderCougarFalconBird_sl

shitlord
547
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popsicledeath_sl said:
I found third person in TESO to be so shitty I felt 'forced' to play in first, which made the game more fun, immersive, all that kind of thing. It wasn't too bad, but was still 'just a camera' sort of view with a lack of rendering and bouncing that doesn't bother me. My issue is that I want to pvp, an in pvp would feel 'forced' to play in third, but third is so shitty for me I don't see myself pvping, so don't see myself bothering to get the game even though I actually enjoyed running around the world in first person.

Anyone else find the offset third-person lacking? It felt like something was wrong with my mouse and the crosshair not lined up properly, so trying to do things like loot a barrel didn't feel at all natural. Thinking maybe I just didn't find the option to let the camera swing independently of the character, which sucks ass when it's locked in third person.
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I, too found first person to be much more enjoyable. For one, I didn't have to look at my shitty animations. I too found the offset third person kind of strange. I could probbly get used to it. But the combat in first person was so much more enjoyable for me I just stuck with that. Unsure how viable it is in dungeons though.
 
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ThunderCougarFalconBird_sl

shitlord
547
1
mkopec_sl said:
I think the game that came the closest to fully done was Rift. Its been a while, someone correct me if im wrong. But I remember that game was pretty much finished for what they had at release.
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Yes, Rift was complete on launch. Had dungeons, heroic modes of those dungeons, pvp, all the quest zones finished and a raid. Even stuff like a fully customizable UI was in at launch. Trion was correctly lauded for those production values.

That's why I'd love to see Scott produce a game with someone like McQuaid purely as the designer.
 
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Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
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ThunderCougarFalconBird_sl said:
Yes, Rift was complete on launch. Had dungeons, heroic modes of those dungeons, pvp, all the question zones finished and a raid. Even stuff like a fully customizable UI was in at launch. Trion was correctly lauded for those production values.

That's why I'd love to see Scott produce a game with someone like McQuaid purely as the designer.
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Out of the very early mmo's DAOC was quite decent at launch , meaning purely mechanical , I remember playing it quite a bit with little downtime at launch.

Rift I'd agree for modern mmo's was very stable , huge queues , but still stable.
 
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Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
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Rescorla_sl said:
If there are much better game designs than linear solo questing, can't you come up with more than the one GW2 example that only worked when there were enough people in zone?

The Skyrim/Oblivion model you suggested only works in a single player game where the mob difficulty autoscales to whatever your level is. You could complete the main storyline of those games as a Level 1 and many players did. A lot of people praise those games for being open world sandbox but don't take into account the autoscaling required to make it work. I don't see how that would work in a MMO except for cases like in GW2 where your level got decreased when you went to lower level zones.
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Late on reply but whatever. These games take half a decade to come and GW2 will have its share of copies / improvements. Same with the systems Eve brings to the table although those can be trickier and will likely be more niche.

I disagree it can't be done. The concept can easily be applied to a MMO and there is zero reason to have the linear quest grind in a traditionally awesome open world game.
First a skill based game (no levels) has been done in the past and can be successful in a MMO. You can still have hard areas where some progression needs to happen before players can realistically go there (think raids or group content area). You can also open skill lines via the world (rare skyshards on steroids), have other types of horizontal PVE progression and still have a pretty kick ass ability system without making everything trivial. In addition you can allow players to enhance themselves via crafting / loot in the world. Lots of progress that can happen without tying it to some arbitrary level which in reality doesn't mean shit since gear > all in every game including TESO.

Regardless, its not like TESO has to be a level based game nor should it be. They can adjust mobs upon entering combat and there isn't a real need to have such a steep power curve in the base PVE game or to limit your player base to some arbitrary tiny section of the world just because you happen to be level 9. They could of had an awesome open world people could explore, kept the PVP separate with its own rewards and people would be climaxing right now.

Seriously the person that keeps limiting players to some faction by race or tiny section of the world simply because of some arbitrary level and / or ties PVE gear and progress to PVP needs to hit the unemployment line.

I realize they enjoy ramming a finger in each of your nostrils and dragging you around the game world on some kind of scenic tour but eventually people will realize that isn't a good way to do it. Sad thing is you can overlay a foot print map of all your players with very clear progression lines from area to area and if you can do that then IMO your game is just derivative shit we've seen already and been playing for a decade now. Don't wonder why your retention sucks.

I'd much rather have players start out in 100 or so different areas (give them the option to start with friends etc) spreading people out than having 10k people all spawn on the same fucking beach and proceed to do the elephant walk from A>B>C>D>E etc.. That isn't Elder Scrolls.

I can't get into specifics of other shit because of the NDA but the above is all general knowledge shit that has been regurgitated by thousands of people on plenty of sties all over the internet.

Regardless of all this, the base Elder Scrolls game (PVE) has always been a total fucking joke. No reason to change that. People should feel powerful, you should be able to do crazy shit (you're a hero after all) and they should of just copied that and what makes Elder Scrolls awesome. OPEN WORLD AND EXPLORATION. You'll say there is exploration in TESO and all I'll say is they are totally different fucking animals. As to combat, power and the watered down PVE most of that comes from the result of PVE impacting PVP. You can't have over powered range or mage classes raping everything with PVP. Since they didn't separate the two they are forever joined at the hip and one will bring down the other. Why companies continue to do this I just don't know. Their attempts to balance out the fun stuff in Elder scrolls combat only waters stuff down and their failure to keep PVE and PVP separate makes it all moot. Especially when level 50's start one shotting level 15's out in PVP land.

They are going to sell lots of boxes. They will also be f2p inside of a year because retention will be dog shit. The PVP changes mentioned by OTHER people here, IMO, are the result of their internal metrics showing a ton of people didn't fucking bother dinging 10 and they don't want to lose them. They should just make it level 1 and be done with it.
Sorry for rambling.


TLDR:

They should of stuck with PVE or made PVP separate, completely separate.
They should of went skill based only and kept the traditional open world
Anyone that thinks this isn't going to sell is a retard
Anyone that thinks they won't be f2p because of retention issues is also crazy.
 
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