The Elder Scrolls Online

Cinge · Mar 24, 2014

500. So have fun. Pretty much will resort to people leaving and joing guilds just to see whats for sell.

The whole guild merchant/store thing is just silly. Especially having ONLY that. They really should of just made a marketplace zone and make it so guilds could setup shops(if you want to keep it limited to guilds) and players can search around that way, instead of having to join a guild just to see what they are selling. If they were really smart, allow each guild to customize their building/shop and maybe even upgrade it(more npcs, better looking etc).

Blackwulf · Mar 24, 2014

Jackdaddio_sl said:
Just sayin'.. if I can spam the other merchants in the guild with the same things they are selling, cool. I'm totally down.

How many people are allowed in one guild anyways? I never found that out.

500. And you can join and leave guilds with no penalty.

Lost Ranger_sl · Mar 24, 2014

Abefroman_sl said:
This game keeps giving me every reason not to get it. Problem is I always regret not getting a MMO for that opening month clusterfuck. There are things I actually like about the game and think are well done. The engine, PVP, class system, megaserver in theory and crafting.

They lost my money. Was going to sign on with Tuco and melt some shit, but the stability of the game made me question how fun the pvp would even be at launch. You add stupid shit like this to the mix and it just seems like pissing money away. I have been advising the people in my social gaming circle to just give it a miss as well. Wait until it goes F2P which won't be long. There is a lot about the game that is just flat out bad and they will bleed subs very quickly.

Jackdaddio_sl · Mar 24, 2014

Blackwulf_sl said:
500. And you can join and leave guilds with no penalty.

So if it's a 'crafters guild' and 450 of them are 'crafters', that leaves the customer pool kind of small, doesn't it?

I mean for a game expected to have millions of subs.

"Leave and join guilds with no penalty."Is having a transient population considered a good thing in an mmo now these days? Usually a game will wait until it's in it's death throes before this happens.

Jackdaddio_sl · Mar 24, 2014

Tuco_sl said:
Yeah this is a very good example of ZOS looking at a general desire by gamers to have meaning behind holding a keep in a PVP zone beyond just a generic banner and control of its defense. They look at this desire and address it with a misguided idea. "People like AH, and people want keeps to be meaningful. I remember there being cool trading cities in Shadowbane. Let's combine these!". The end result is Frankenstein's monster.

If I had my way, owning a keep would provide your guild with:
1. NPC bonuses to your faction resulting in better merchant prices / quest rewards.
2. A steady source of income, both in terms of alliance points and raw gold.
3. A temporary title for those in the guild (Ex: Sir Menion. With officers/leaders getting something like Duke/Lord Menion).
4. Easy access to a valuable and tradable resource. Ex: Some rare crafting resources, or some unique but one time bonus to your character. A good example is the commander rune in Shadowbane that only spawned near our great city. We monopolized this resource and had a distinct advantage over our enemies because only we had this rune (and thus only we could use trebs).

Why haven't they hired you yet? Stellar ideas Tuco.

Even Aion had this kind of thing. Unless you won battles/keeps in Abyss, you didn't get special PvE dungeons to farm for PvP points or materials and recipes. But everyone could use the AH lol.

Blackwulf · Mar 24, 2014

Jackdaddio_sl said:
So if it's a 'crafters guild' and 450 of them are 'crafters', that leaves the customer pool kind of small, doesn't it?

I mean for a game expected to have millions of subs.

"Leave and join guilds with no penalty."Is having a transient population considered a good thing in an mmo now these days?

How about you make a crafter guild with 20 others and people will come far and wide to shop in your guild.

Do what you want. Either give their system a chance or not. There are plenty of games with massive, soulless data base AH for you to enjoy. Good luck.

Jackdaddio_sl · Mar 24, 2014

Blackwulf_sl said:
How about you make a crafter guild with 20 others and people will come far and wide to shop in your guild.

Do what you want. Either give their system a chance or not. There are plenty of games with massive, soulless data base AH for you to enjoy. Good luck.

Yeah, if you've played enough mmos you know how those 'special guilds' work out by now.

Don't get all defensive with 'play it or not, I don't give a fuck'. It's just a discussion. Take that chip elsewhere.

Dahkoht_sl · Mar 24, 2014

Blackwulf_sl said:
How about you make a crafter guild with 20 others and people will come far and wide to shop in your guild.

Do what you want. Either give their system a chance or not. There are plenty of games with massive, soulless data base AH for you to enjoy. Good luck.

So basically they've made the AH system , just made it a pain in the ass ? What's the point ? It's just as soulless this way other than a /tell "Can I have invite for 5 mins to shop your guild plz then will leave , thankz"

Tuco's ideas of selling with bonus's and so on makes far more sense then this guild hopping between 5 x500 user guilds to buy and sell shit.

Vitality · Mar 24, 2014

Tuco_sl said:
Yeah this is a very good example of ZOS looking at a general desire by gamers to have meaning behind holding a keep in a PVP zone beyond just a generic banner and control of its defense. They look at this desire and address it with a misguided idea. "People like AH, and people want keeps to be meaningful. I remember there being cool trading cities in Shadowbane. Let's combine these!". The end result is Frankenstein's monster.

If I had my way, owning a keep would provide your guild with:
1. NPC bonuses to your faction resulting in better merchant prices / quest rewards.
2. A steady source of income, both in terms of alliance points and raw gold.
3. A temporary title for those in the guild (Ex: Sir Menion. With officers/leaders getting something like Duke/Lord Menion).
4. Easy access to a valuable and tradable resource. Ex: Some rare crafting resources, or some unique but one time bonus to your character. A good example is the commander rune in Shadowbane that only spawned near our great city. We monopolized this resource and had a distinct advantage over our enemies because only we had this rune (and thus only we could use trebs).

Tricky part here is guesting and campaign hopping, rare resources aren't rare if you can just go to some low unbalanced campaign and claim the map for the rare stuff.

This type of stuff loses all meaning when there's 75 different servers you can get them from.

Tuco · Mar 24, 2014

Vitality_sl said:
Tricky part here is guesting and campaign hopping, rare resources aren't rare if you can just go to some low unbalanced campaign and claim the map for the rare stuff.

This type of stuff loses all meaning when there's 75 different servers you can get them from.

Yup. In the case of Cyrodiil I'd say just throw a bunch of high value resource nodes next to each keep, or if you want immersion build a mine under some keeps, or a dense forest by others. Personally I'd want to be able to buy NPCs to mine that shit and let the PCs do the fighting and protecting. That way players don't have to do menial labor in 'pvp'. Plus sending raiding parties to terrorize supply camps is fun.

Jackdaddio_sl · Mar 24, 2014

Dahkoht_sl said:
So basically they've made the AH system , just made it a pain in the ass ? What's the point ? It's just as soulless this way other than a /tell "Can I have invite for 5 mins to shop your guild plz then will leave , thankz"

Tuco's ideas of selling with bonus's and so on makes far more sense then this guild hopping between 5 x500 user guilds to buy and sell shit.

It sounds to me like someone said earlier; companies have said before that auction houses are some of the hardest things to design and make functional. A lot end up like STO's abortions that they just recopy for their next game because it frees them up to focus on the major parts of the game that they want people to be doing. If that's what ZOS did, I can understand that 100%. Less AH, more gameplay.

In the case of ESO, it's the PvP which is why I said this PvP better work out to be stellar, not just 'okay' because GW2 is 'okay' for free AND they have an auction house.

Three months from now if after a campaign people start going "meh", then the question will be"If you skipped/passed on the AH because it was too hard and you wanted to do the PvP right, then why didn't you?"

Rescorla_sl · Mar 24, 2014

spronk_sl said:
the negativity is getting too high, TEAM FANBOI POWERS ACTIVATE! EARTH! FIRE! BLACKWULF! RESCORARL! RHINOHELIX! HEART!

Is that a selfie?

I don't recall ever defending the lack of an AH before. What I do recall in the many surveys I submitted was my opinion that AHs were a fundamental part of MMOs and that I didn't think Guild Stores were well designed and meet the demand of players.

Abefroman · Mar 24, 2014

I'm really baffled how game design works. Do game designers not get input from their peers? Do they not have proposals in meetings where someone can speak up and say they think the idea is bad? I don't see how design decisions like these get passed the drawing board.

Vitality · Mar 24, 2014

Abefroman_sl said:
I'm really baffled how game design works. Do game designers not get input from their peers? Do they not have proposals in meetings where someone can speak up and say they think the idea is bad? I don't see how design decisions like these get passed the drawing board.

They sure do, but Sage chokes them out to re-do the tutorial every single time. Wheeler seems to be the only free standing entity there aside from some of the mega server BS he has to work around.

FFS - the tutorials been re-hashed 3 times in 3 weeks.

3 times in 3 weeks for 3 minutes of static content.

Utnayan · Mar 24, 2014

/\/\ Spot on.

Abefroman_sl said:
I'm really baffled how game design works. Do game designers not get input from their peers? Do they not have proposals in meetings where someone can speak up and say they think the idea is bad? I don't see how design decisions like these get passed the drawing board.

Depends on the developer house. In this case, Paul Sage happens and what you posted above turns into no one saying anything because they need to get a shipped title on their resume and get the hell out. If anyone disagrees, they get canned. This is the disaster of top down development. Now, some other teams leverage the talent on their team and the Team Lead or Creative Director just makes sure development stays within a track of the overall scope of the title. Great ideas are presented, everyone collaborates, and things (cool things) get accomplished.

Unfortunately, this game isn't it. Also unfortunately, this happens to be a common theme in this industry. But most of what I said above takes place within the MMORPG genre because quite frankly it's been long overdue to cull the "leaders" and send them packing.

Blackwulf · Mar 24, 2014

6 more days! Get that preorder in, Ut!

Chesire_sl · Mar 24, 2014

Auction house selling point next expansion
PVP revamp second expansion
class balancing third expansion

Draegan_sl · Mar 24, 2014

pyksel_sl said:
I hear ya Abe and for myself, this will be the first time in a long time that I haven't participated in a launch and it's quite refreshing. I don't feel like I'm going to miss a thing this go around.

I did that with FFXIV.

Tuco · Mar 24, 2014

Abefroman_sl said:
I'm really baffled how game design works. Do game designers not get input from their peers? Do they not have proposals in meetings where someone can speak up and say they think the idea is bad? I don't see how design decisions like these get passed the drawing board.

In addition to what Vitality/Utnayan said, look at how Mass Effect ended up. You had the lead designer/lead writer being constrained by their peers for the entirety of the project, but in the last game they went off into a locked room and circle jerked eachother until you had the awful ending created + Kai Leng and a few other dopey things.

Utnayan · Mar 24, 2014

/\ I often feel is it has gotten so bad that some developers outright troll their player base with endings like that original one.

Blackwulf_sl said:
6 more days! Get that preorder in, Ut!

Free to play - Late Summer. See you then. Hopefully there will be some people left to play with.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

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I got Tuco'd!

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I got Tuco'd!

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