The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014)

Jysin_sl said:

Casual movie goers and non-book readers would have lost their shit wanting to know who the fuck the enigma of Bombadill was. The entire trilogy builds up this fear of the power of Sauron and the corrupting power of the Ring. You'd have the scene where Bombadill just puts the ring on and shrugs his shoulders as if it was just some trinket of junk completely unaffected by it. Zero explanation given whatsoever = doesn't translate well to film.

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It doesn't even translate in the book to be honest -- it undermines the power of the ring completely.

Tolkien also did this with Faramir and the ring, to an extent.

Phalanx_sl said:

It doesn't even translate in the book to be honest -- it undermines the power of the ring completely.

Tolkien also did this with Faramir and the ring, to an extent.

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It was to show that in spite of all the dread and gloom, in spite of the elves finally acknowledging the realization of their long defeat in their struggles against Sauron and leaving Middle-earth, that there were still powers in the world, some of them unlikely, capable of resisting him and his most powerful of devices. This was one of overarching themes of the books; strength in unlooked for places.

Royal_sl said:

It was to show that in spite of all the dread and gloom, in spite of the elves finally acknowledging the realization of their long defeat in their struggles against Sauron and leaving Middle-earth, that there were still powers in the world, some of them unlikely, capable of resisting him and his most powerful of devices. This was one of overarching themes of the books; strength in unlooked for places.

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That's a very nice way of putting it, but I don't think that's an accurate assessment. That would be more appropriate for describing Frodo/Hobbits to a certain extent rather than Tom. He's worse than the eagles when it comes to the "Wait, why didn't they just..?" questions that can be brought up, and even they have some what an explanation.

Arakkis_sl said:

yeah they should have used a real dragon instead of all the cgi stuff also i dont like watching giant aerial scenes with dragons destroying cities its too scary like when bambis mom died

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Sorry if it wasn't obvious, I meant dragon sickness, I enjoyed the smaug/laketown scene. Thorin immediately losing his damn mind for no reason and then having an epiphany for no reason, pretty much everything about the way that was handled was just bad.

Royal_sl said:

It was to show that in spite of all the dread and gloom, in spite of the elves finally acknowledging the realization of their long defeat in their struggles against Sauron and leaving Middle-earth, that there were still powers in the world, some of them unlikely, capable of resisting him and his most powerful of devices. This was one of overarching themes of the books; strength in unlooked for places.

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Yeah, no, that's not a common interpretation at all. For one, Bombadil is presented before the struggle against Sauron's might is fleshed out. For two, I believe Tolkien pretty much stated Bombadil was an enigma for the sack of a being an enigma. For three, fuck Tom Bombadil's fairy ass.

Phalanx_sl said:

That's a very nice way of putting it, but I don't think that's an accurate assessment. That would be more appropriate for describing Frodo/Hobbits to a certain extent rather than Tom.

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Of course Frodo was the focus of that theme, but Tom and to an extent Faramir were planks in that same theme. Hobbits were dismissed out of hand. Faramir an ill-favored son who was the brother of the man who had tried to take the ring from Frodo. Tom a seemingly silly man who made Rhadagast from the films look like a mortician.

Phalanx_sl said:

That's a very nice way of putting it, but I don't think that's an accurate assessment. That would be more appropriate for describing Frodo/Hobbits to a certain extent rather than Tom. He's worse than the eagles when it comes to the "Wait, why didn't they just..?" questions that can be brought up, and even they have some what an explanation.

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Bombadil was brought up at the Council of Elrond as a potential way to handle the ring. Gandalf and Elrond both agreed that he was too care-free to take the evil of the ring seriously and would have eventually lost track of it. Even if he didn't, the ring wasn't even the major threat in the story. Sauron wasalreadystronger than Elves and Men combined and would have eventually overran all of Middle Earth, even if he never got the ring back. Bombadil could have held out for a while, but not indefinitely.

The eagles wouldn't have worked because they're vulnerable to arrow fire, as mentioned in the Hobbit. Stealth was the only way to get to Mount Doom that had a chance of working.

gmstbfla_sl said:

...The eagles wouldn't have worked because they're vulnerable to arrow fire, as mentioned in the Hobbit...

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Eagles fly 10,000 to 15,000 feet (3.0 - 4.5km) high at about 65 mph. They can glide for hours without rest on warm updrafts of air. With their acute vision, they are able to spot prey a mile down below. Eagles swoop down at amazing speeds of 200 mph...

The furthest distance shot with any bow is 2,047 yards (1,871.84m) . This was shot by the late Harry Drake in 1988 using a crossbow. The furthest with a hand-held - and pulled - bow is 1,336 yds 1' 3" (1,222.01m) , shot by Don Brown with an unlimited conventional Flight bow in 1987.

^^ Mindful, that is distance.. height would be much shorter. ^^

Not to super-nerd this, but why the fuck would the eagles be susceptible to arrows again? *Besides the "a wizard did it" argument.*

If you remember in The Hobbit (the book) in his exchange with Gandalf, Gwaihir talking about men and orcs killing eagles with arrows. Gwaihir himself was shot with a poisoned orcish arrow, which Gandalf healed him from.

Royal_sl said:

If you remember in The Hobbit (the book) in his exchange with Galdalf, Gwaihir talking about men and orcs killing eagles with arrows. Gwaihir himself was shot with a poisoned orcish arrow, which Gandalf healed him from.

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Arrows aside, complete stealth and secrecy was key to their plan to infiltrate Mordor. Certainly the Eagles would have a flock of angry flying Nazguls after them in short order, and then everyone would be fucked.

And then there's the matter of giving the ring to such powerful beings to begin with, where the chances of the ring corrupting them before they could destroy it were high, and then everyone would be fucked.

The eagle argument has always baffled me. How would they have destroyed the ring with that plan without risking way too much?

They would have seen the eagles coming. Now, you might say that even if they saw them coming, Sauron would have not expected the destruction of the ring, so they could have tried and done it quickly. A Mission Impossible type of scenario then?

Let's go even nerdier then. Some will argue that they could have taken the route that Sauron wasn't watching. The reason being that Mordor was surrounded by a mountain range on that side. How tall were those mountains, we don't know, but maybe tall enough for an eagle to carry someone without freezing? Doubt it

Plus, you have all sorts of Mordor spies, and I'm pretty sure that once Gandalf was saved by Gwahir from imprisonment, they were keeping a close look at what the eagles could be up to.

Gandalf's plan was always to use the eagles, but Aragorn was just too dumb to figure it out. Why do you think he yelled 'FLY YOU FOOLS' when he fell into the abyss fighting the Balrog?

The eagle thing is explained in the MMO, you go too near the enemy's power and you start freaking the fuck out. Like there are areas in the game where you lose control of your character because there is ringwraith type shit around.

They even show this in the movie where Sauron looks at Frodo and he immediately falls down, the quest only works because Aragorn with his army draws his gaze as a more likely ringbearer.

Big Phoenix_sl said:

Yet they show eagles wrecking the shit out of his minions multiple times.

Sorry but is just bad writing.

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Not disagreeing but:

1) The Hobbit: Hundreds of miles away from Sauron while he was running from the White Council.
2) Saving Gandalf from Isengard: In stealth at night and hundreds of miles away from Sauron.
3) Saving Frodo from Mt Doom: Sauron was dead.

They are never shown doing anything near Sauron's power (eg Ringwraiths).

Chris_sl said:

They are never shown doing anything near Sauron's power (eg Ringwraiths).

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Not those contemporary to LoTR/The Hobbit. In the Silmarillion an eagle attacked Morgoth himself. The eagles like so many other things had diminished over the ages.

I've been looking for a post in here that mentioned the RISE OF SAURON but I give up. That is exactly the kind of name that HollywoodT would come up with so +1 to you good sir.

lol jk

And yep, the eagles are a contrivance. But shit is like that son. This ain't no Starr Treks.

Royal_sl said:

Not those contemporary to LoTR/The Hobbit. In the Silmarillion an eagle attacked Morgoth himself. The eagles like so many other things had diminished over the ages.

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Wasn't that the King of Eagles just after Morgoth had been wounded by Fingolfin? I liked how the Thorin vs randomorc fight seemed a little bit like the Morgoth vs Fingolfin duel.

Chris_sl said:

Wasn't that the King of Eagles just after Morgoth had been wounded by Fingolfin?

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Yes. Thorondor was his name.