Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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How can a board of gaming nerds not know it's "dwarves" and not "dwarfs?" Fucking Christ, people.
The Hobbit
- Thread starter Feien
- Start date
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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It isn't in The Hobbit book at all in any version, though The Necromancer is mentioned as being why they won't go near southern Mirkwood and is what has darkened the forest (it used to be called Greenwood). Obviously The Ring is in it too and portions of the dialouge around that were retconned in a later edition (sounds like you have the original).
Gandalf vanishes during the middle portion of the book unexplained and the Lord of the Rings appencies say that it is because he met up with the White Council to deal with The Necromancer thinking that it was just a Ringwraith...
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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"for LOTR, I wanted to see more but for the Hobbit, I want to see less." ~ Jay
Red Letter Media Half in the Bag: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug :
Red Letter Media Half in the Bag: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug :
Blackyce
Silver Knight of the Realm
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In fact, he was going to revise the whole book. The Gollum scene was only his first example he gave the publisher. He never heard back from them until he was sent a proof for the next edition of the book several years later with the new chapter. He then set about to rewrite the whole book, got three chapters done and was told by others it "wasn't the hobbit anymore" so he stopped.
Phazael
Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
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The attack on Dol Goldur happened at the same time as the Erebor events in the hobbit, but Gandalf going to Dol Guldur happened over 300 years prior to the Hobbit. First time he went there, Sauran fled to conceal his presence. Second time he went was 50 years before the hobbit and Gandalf confirmed that the Necromancer was Sauron. That second trip was also where he met Thorin's father in the dungeons and got the key from him for Erebor. The entire quest for Erebor was actually Gandalf throwing the Dwarves under the bus to keep Smaug busy so that he could not come to Saurons aid when the White Council attacked Dol Guldur. The movie seriously altered both the timing and nature of some of those events.
Eomer
Trakanon Raider
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Long story short, Tolkien was continually revising and changing shit in Middle Earth. The Hobbit and LOTR were the only two stories out of literally hundreds that he ever finalized and published before his death. I remember reading an article about The Hobbit and LOTR, and basically when Tolkien was writing The Hobbit he didn't realize that Gollum's ring was The One Ring until he had outlined the LOTR arc. So yes, Tolkien ret-conned his own work. As far as the Necromancer shit goes, Tolkien always intended that to be happening concurrently with the rest of the events in the Hobbit. That's why Gandalf is missing half the time. That wasn't ret-conned, although perhaps when he wrote it he didn't link the Necromancer and Sauron.
I dunno if the poster who said something about the Necromancer events happening "300 years before" was confusing other Sauron related events or what.
edit: ah, I see Phazael straightened things out
Xeldar
Silver Squire
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Real problem: The tone of the writing in The Hobbit and LOTR are completely different. The Hobbit is primarily an adventure book (and not a very good one) - Hardy Brothers, Huck Finn. Ole' Frodo and his magical ring get Thorin and the boys out of some real pickles! But they shot Hobbit in the same LOTR solemn graveness. It's off-putting. About a quarter of the way through the movie, I started rooting for the orcs. Those fuckers have balls. Ass-door assaulting Mirkwood and Rivertown. If The hobbit was re-shot to be about the orcs hunting Frodo, it'd be an awesome movie. With HD movies, I can completely notice how movie propish their makeup is, their costumes are, that boulder is, that tree is.
I enjoyed Smaug and Frodo talking and everything in Rivertown. Overall, it's a very meh movie.
I enjoyed Smaug and Frodo talking and everything in Rivertown. Overall, it's a very meh movie.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Dead Alive and Meet the Feebles want to have a word with you Sir.....you should get high first though.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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Seems like I read somewhere before that Jackson, when attempting to get the blessing to bridge the books/films per say, was given access to a lot of things the Tolkien had written that may have not even been published. It is hard to tell what Jackson has read in terms of notes, journals, etc. that the Tolkien family has kept to themselves. As others have said, Tolkien has always been known as an evolving writer never really satisfied with his work as he looked through it over the years. Not defending Jackson but just saying in attempt to get the resources to make the movies that he wanted, I'm sure he found a lot of "filler" material that could have been from the depths of a Tolkien safe or closet.
Thorpe
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Interesting if true. I know the Tolkien family has hated on all the movies, but I'm not sure if that hate started after the LoTR trilogy was released or well before that.
Rivendell - gated mcmansion community
Mirkwood - Trailer Park
So the trailer park elf king had centuries of being a neurotic egomaniac with an inferiority complex . Of course he was mightily offended by being made too bow too the dorm king. Not too mention once the dorf empire was crushed , mirkwood became the economic engine of the area .
Mirkwood - Trailer Park
So the trailer park elf king had centuries of being a neurotic egomaniac with an inferiority complex . Of course he was mightily offended by being made too bow too the dorm king. Not too mention once the dorf empire was crushed , mirkwood became the economic engine of the area .
Wombat
Trakanon Raider
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My review isn't anything you haven't already heard: it's better than the first chunk; I'm still looking forward to the fan edits that chop this movie down to about 1 hour once all three parts are out (just subtract the elf-on-orc killing and you're halfway there); some of the special effects are really bad, mostly overhead shots of dwarves or orcs moving across terrain; the necromancer changes seems difficult to reconcile with the timeline, though it could be as easy as "Galadriel shows up with reinforcements at the end of the third movie, they blow up Dol Guldur, and everyone says 'that's the last of that!'".
I honestly liked the Legolas bits though. I thought this version of him, clearly reflective of his father, was nicely contrasted with the version from The Lord of the Rings. Tauriel may be entirely invented, but she's a well done invention.
I honestly liked the Legolas bits though. I thought this version of him, clearly reflective of his father, was nicely contrasted with the version from The Lord of the Rings. Tauriel may be entirely invented, but she's a well done invention.
i think they should have just made this 2 movies. there's just not enough material in "the hobbit" for three, three hour movies. they could have chopped several hours of all this filler crap out of the movies and it would have made them much better. i think the problem is that peter jackson is too focused on connecting these movies with the LOTR, when it would have been a better idea to just make these a stand alone movie. people know that the ring that bilbo finds winds up being the one true ring. even if you never read the books, if you watched the original LOTR trilogy you know the ring's true source and its significance. that's one of the biggest problems with director's nowadays; they treat the audience like they're retarded. sure, some of them really are, but most can comprehend what's going on. you don't need to hand hold them through the entire plot.
Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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I can't wait until I'm sitting down watching these 6 movies with my kids and they experience it all without any knowledge of what lay ahead. I like this direction and don't think movies should be dumbed down just because our generation has knowledge of future events.