The Hobbit

Chris_sl said:

The Balrog is on Sauron's level, Sauron is probally a bit stronger because he got more Melkor juice by being his chief henchman. He would fuck up Smaug.

Smaug vs Ringwraiths probally depends on if they actually wear their rings or if Sauron keeps them, dragonfire would melt the rings and kill them.

Click to expand...

I don't think so, Gandalf 1v1'd the Balrog. Sauron v Gandalf probably would have ended in a grey stain on a rock.

Big Phoenix_sl said:

The scene is cheesy and cliche but everyones reaction to it is what made it so horrible.

Click to expand...

Yup. My wife and I both looked at each other in disgust when everyone burst into wild applause for her.

chaos_sl said:

I don't think so, Gandalf 1v1'd the Balrog. Sauron v Gandalf probably would have ended in a grey stain on a rock.

Click to expand...

Balrog would have destroyed Smaug, no question. Balrog is technically equal to Sauron in that they are both servants of Morigoth (see:http://tolkien.cro.net/balrogs/sauronvs.html). Of course, Sauron's constant focus on growing his power made him stronger over the long run while the Balrog was basically just sleeping in Moria.

Ultimately, Smaug is still a mortal creature as evidenced by the fact that he was killed by a single arrow to the heart from a man, whereas it took the Middle Earth equivalent of an angel to kill the Balrog in Moria, and even then the "angel" ended up dying.

Yeah but not all servants of Morgoth are equal. Ungoliant > *

I would imagine that Goku would totally wreck Smaug.

Goku would destroy anyone. Except Sailor Moon.

Yeah but only because it would devolve into a crazed hentai porno

McCheese_sl said:

Ultimately, Smaug is still a mortal creature as evidenced by the fact that he was killed by a single arrow to the heart from a man, whereas it took the Middle Earth equivalent of an angel to kill the Balrog in Moria, and even then the "angel" ended up dying.

Click to expand...

And yet many of the other Balrogs, including their captain, were killed by elves..yes, those elves of old were much more powerful than their later counterparts, but still.

Finally got to see this. Thought it was good, not great. Probably give it a 7-7.5. There were parts of it that just felt like it was dragging on. The last half hour with Smaug was great though and redeemed the movie or else this wouldn't of been any better than the first movie. I guess I got spoiled by Two Towers in what to expect from a 'bridge' movie.

Pharazon_sl said:

And yet many of the other Balrogs, including their captain, were killed by elves..yes, those elves of old were much more powerful than their later counterparts, but still.

Click to expand...

Elven heroes killed balrogs, they were genuine badasses, but not all elves were like that. Kind of like the way Legolas was portrayed in this movie, though probably much more badass if they are taking on dragons and balrogs solo. Legolas could kill hundreds of orcs without breaking a sweat, but the elves guarding the river gate? They just sort of fell over without doing much. Although I really doubt Tolkien ever intended Legolas to be anything like the elven heroes of old.

Either way, just because Gandalf, Sauron, and balrogs are the same type of creature (Maiar), doesn't mean they were anywhere near equals. Just look at Melkor, he was by far the strongest of the Valar and it took all the rest of them combined to defeat him. Seeing as Melkor hand picked Sauron to be his right hand man, its probably safe to assume he did so because Sauron was among the most powerful of all the Maiar.

I thought Tulkas single handedly ran down Melkor, loling the whole time.

can we say for sure that Sauron and the Balrog were actually killed? they were definitely defeated, but these are immortal creatures, even somebody like elrond, galadriel or mythrandir could not really die. they just said, ok guys its time for men to get their turn, lets all chill out at Valinor a while til the 4th or 5th age and we are needed again.
Smaug on the other hand was killed to shit by a special arrow. he was about as special as Shelob.

gunther_sl said:

I thought Tulkas single handedly ran down Melkor, loling the whole time.

Click to expand...

In theory Melkor > Tulkas, since Melkor had a portion of each other Valar's special powers being the first. However Melkor had this thing going on where he would imbue his servants with a portion of his power (which is why Sauron is so much more powerful than Gandalf). He imbued so much that he was pretty weak without his army of Balrogs and Dragons. I think he may have been semi crippled too from the Fingolfin duel.

Maester Chuk_sl said:

can we say for sure that Sauron and the Balrog were actually killed? they were definitely defeated, but these are immortal creatures, even somebody like elrond, galadriel or mythrandir could not really die. they just said, ok guys its time for men to get their turn, lets all chill out at Valinor a while til the 4th or 5th age and we are needed again.
Smaug on the other hand was killed to shit by a special arrow. he was about as special as Shelob.

Click to expand...

Shelob is one of Ungoliant's children. That is pretty fucking special, bro. But Smaug would have utterly annihilated Shelob.

Chris_sl said:

In theory Melkor > Tulkas, since Melkor had a portion of each other Valar's special powers being the first. However Melkor had this thing going on where he would imbue his servants with a portion of his power (which is why Sauron is so much more powerful than Gandalf). He imbued so much that he was pretty weak without his army of Balrogs and Dragons. I think he may have been semi crippled too from the Fingolfin duel.

Click to expand...

I haven't read the Simlarillion in like 20 years I think, but I seem to remember that Melkor was severely diminished due to his confrontation with Fingolfin and was basically trying to operate as a corruptor, using his influence which stretched his powers thin and allowed him to be defeated and chained.

Lucky that they had a giant unfinished golden statue for their entrance, shame Smaug destroyed the kingdom 10 minutes before it was finished! Oh wait not lucky BECAUSE IT DIDN'T WORK.

chaos_sl said:

I don't think so, Gandalf 1v1'd the Balrog. Sauron v Gandalf probably would have ended in a grey stain on a rock.

Click to expand...

Gandalf was a loot ho. He binned the rest of his party when he saw it spawn and even had the cheek to show up in the leet white robe it dropped later.